Girl body shamed at church

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I just read this discussion a few minutes ago and I really don't get it. It seems everyone criticises what is NOT the problem and completely forgets what is the real problem.

In the video, we hear that the older woman tells the young person that she is chubby, then fat. And she tells her she isn't dressed appropriately. It doesn't feel like appropriate fashion tips to the girl, and even if they were, I still don't think it's appropriate to offer unsolicited fashion advice, whether

On the first issue, I have seen quickly what she looks like on her twitter feed and yes, she looks overweight. Although the older woman isn't her doctor and shouldn't discuss about other people's weight like that, she isn't stating anything false. So she is stating the obvious (from what I see). However looking at the older woman, the younger one could have replied that they are both in the same boat... I could have replied something nasty about that.

It's on the second issue that I have a real problem. The real issue is that, whether the young person is male or female, fat or slim, she has the right to dress in anything that respects the Criminal code. So whether she wants to wear shorts, a T-shirt and a baseball cap, jeans or a fancy dress, nobody in the church or elsewhere should feel they have the right to tell her how to dress. That's where is the insult and that's where the church authorities need to react.

As for those comments I have read about the "obesity epidemic" (not sure these were the exact words), part of it is related to the food industry, and a lot is due to the everything-by-car environment we now have, especially outside of downtown areas in large cities. But there is also the fact that one's weight is partly due to environmental factors and partly due to genetics. In other words, some people are made to be fatter than others.
All in all, it generally does not serve anything to complain about someone's weight. But the main issue here is telling the other person how to dress.
 
I just read this discussion a few minutes ago and I really don't get it. It seems everyone criticises what is NOT the problem and completely forgets what is the real problem.

In the video, we hear that the older woman tells the young person that she is chubby, then fat. And she tells her she isn't dressed appropriately. It doesn't feel like appropriate fashion tips to the girl, and even if they were, I still don't think it's appropriate to offer unsolicited fashion advice, whether

On the first issue, I have seen quickly what she looks like on her twitter feed and yes, she looks overweight. Although the older woman isn't her doctor and shouldn't discuss about other people's weight like that, she isn't stating anything false. So she is stating the obvious (from what I see). However looking at the older woman, the younger one could have replied that they are both in the same boat... I could have replied something nasty about that.

It's on the second issue that I have a real problem. The real issue is that, whether the young person is male or female, fat or slim, she has the right to dress in anything that respects the Criminal code. So whether she wants to wear shorts, a T-shirt and a baseball cap, jeans or a fancy dress, nobody in the church or elsewhere should feel they have the right to tell her how to dress. That's where is the insult and that's where the church authorities need to react.

As for those comments I have read about the "obesity epidemic" (not sure these were the exact words), part of it is related to the food industry, and a lot is due to the everything-by-car environment we now have, especially outside of downtown areas in large cities. But there is also the fact that one's weight is partly due to environmental factors and partly due to genetics. In other words, some people are made to be fatter than others.
All in all, it generally does not serve anything to complain about someone's weight. But the main issue here is telling the other person how to dress.
I don’t think so. If she had told a thin person that she really should ‘t be wearing shorts because she is too thin, unless that person is vulnerable in her body image for other reasons, she probably would have just shrugged it off.

Dress code in church is another topic- would everyone agree that it should be completely optional? Even schools and malls have a dress code. I am sure if there isn’t an official one, then there still is an unwritten one. The question is, who is the one to “ reinforce” it? Are you leaving it up to folks talking behind your back- or out loud, as in this case? What would be an outfit, if so, inappropriate for church?
 
No, a dress code makes it less welcoming. It reminds me of one of Shane Claiborne’s jokes:
(Shane has a Southern drawl...i’ll try to write the way he told it.)

“A homeless man walks in off the street, into a fancy downtown church. He’s grubby and his clothes are dirty and messy. The pastor comes up to him and says, “Son, I noticed you’re not really dressed for church this morning. Now when you leave, I want you to pray to God and ask him what you should be wearing to church next Sunday.” So the next Sunday comes, the man shows up in the same grubby clothes, and the pastor asks him, “Now, didn’t I say you should pray to God and ask him what you should be wearing to church? Didn’t you do it?” The man answered, “Yes sir, I did.” And the pastor says, “So, what did God say?” The man replies, “Well, he said he really dint know cuz he ain’t never been to your church.”
 
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I don’t think so. If she had told a thin person that she really should ‘t be wearing shorts because she is too thin, unless that person is vulnerable in her body image for other reasons, she probably would have just shrugged it off.

Dress code in church is another topic- would everyone agree that it should be completely optional? Even schools and malls have a dress code. I am sure if there isn’t an official one, then there still is an unwritten one. The question is, who is the one to “ reinforce” it? Are you leaving it up to folks talking behind your back- or out loud, as in this case? What would be an outfit, if so, inappropriate for church?

You can bet in the search for power that some arch type will attempt to force something as reinforcement for substance that has retreated from us while off in an ethereal thought ... thus old folks in mountainous hollows ... grooving?

This could lead to us being trashed by emotions --- Grover!

What's the quantum chance that some god of wisdom may appear as a spook ... wisp over the hills ... willowed? Thus it went like a breeze ...
 
Dress code in church is another topic- would everyone agree that it should be completely optional? Even schools and malls have a dress code. I am sure if there isn’t an official one, then there still is an unwritten one. The question is, who is the one to “ reinforce” it? Are you leaving it up to folks talking behind your back- or out loud, as in this case? What would be an outfit, if so, inappropriate for church?

Unwritten dress codes enforced by social fiat need to go. It's just another way to control and marginalize. If a church wants a dress code, make it explicit with rules about who can enforce it. That's how school dress codes work (or should work). It still controls and marginalizes but at least it is out there and visible and there are rules for the enforcers as well as the offenders. Better than something "everybody knows" enforced without accountability by old mother hens (of all gender identities) clucking and shaking their heads.
 
From what I've seen, church is often just a club based around a shared interest.

And that's great. Have a social club. I have belonged to a number of clubs. Clubs are great. But they have their annoying, sometimes abusive members. This is one of those times.
 
If you check out the church, the particular service she was dressed like this for, the one that caters to youth, her clothes matched the spoken aspect and unspoken aspect of the dress code.
 
I'm late to this party, so much of what I might have said has been said

I reacted strongly to the aggressive body language of the older woman. She is pointing her finger, speaking in a power way and shaming the girl who is clearly upset. The younger woman no doubt feels trapped in spite of the older woman's intentions. It looks like the older woman wants to dictate to the other how she is to behave in order to be a "good girl". Sadly churches have been far too good at that kind of shaming women for many years/decades. I imagine the older woman was subjected to it in her day.
 
Unwritten dress codes enforced by social fiat need to go. It's just another way to control and marginalize. If a church wants a dress code, make it explicit with rules about who can enforce it. That's how school dress codes work (or should work). It still controls and marginalizes but at least it is out there and visible and there are rules for the enforcers as well as the offenders. Better than something "everybody knows" enforced without accountability by old mother hens (of all gender identities) clucking and shaking their heads.
Agreed. That would be a reasonable and logical way of dealing with stuff. Reasonable and logical are not always predominant in congregations. Considering, that, as I learned on WC2, people who had to get a new “ Easter bonnet” every year are still alive and kicking around in congregations, ( a custom I felt to be absolutely ridiculous), getting rid of unspoken dress expectations might mean to have to wait another 20 yrs.
 
AFAIK, malls require shirts- which would include men, no?

I agree that shopping criteria equally targets all people - those who don't wear shirts and shoes into a shopping environment. However, the whole idea of dress codes appears to originate in the school system, and it invariably targets girls.
 
However, the whole idea of dress codes appears to originate in the school system, and it invariably targets girls.

Unfortunately, quite true. We had a battle at Little M's high school over that while he was still there. Dress codes really need to prune back to basics and not dwell on what body parts can or can't be exposed. All too often, it's women's body parts that seem to get the most attention.
 
The plan of figgy lieph in time ... wind blown! Very Rockwellish ... blown fringes!

Tartans in a spin dance ...
 
Wow - I've been away and came back to this thread.

Some ministers can be pretty abusive when telling others to be more like they are. One told me that I needed to improve my 'image' when she saw me in public' wearing my 'I've been out taking photos clothes'! Apparently she was uncomfortable with my muddy hiking boots, quick drying cargo pants and windbreaker. She learned that I truly didn't give a rat's ass what she thought.

Personally, I believe the only solution for this 'shaming' is helping all our kids to be happy with who they are. Not an easy task - but one of my grands seems to be in that space. Bullying type behaviour just seems to roll off him.
 
Some ministers can be pretty abusive when telling others to be more like they are. One told me that I needed to improve my 'image' when she saw me in public' wearing my 'I've been out taking photos clothes'! Apparently she was uncomfortable with my muddy hiking boots, quick drying cargo pants and windbreaker.
:rolleyes:
I'm curious to know what she would wear to go on a hike.
 
Wow - I've been away and came back to this thread.

Some ministers can be pretty abusive when telling others to be more like they are. One told me that I needed to improve my 'image' when she saw me in public' wearing my 'I've been out taking photos clothes'! Apparently she was uncomfortable with my muddy hiking boots, quick drying cargo pants and windbreaker. She learned that I truly didn't give a rat's ass what she thought.

Personally, I believe the only solution for this 'shaming' is helping all our kids to be happy with who they are. Not an easy task - but one of my grands seems to be in that space. Bullying type behaviour just seems to roll off him.
I bet she would not have liked Jesus' dusty feet & sweaty clothing as he wandered the holy land!
 
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