Gender assignment

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GordW said:
What criteria would you use for which form that surgery takes?

REcently I heard from a nurse who had been working with someone who appeared female but when she was very late entering puberty they tested and found she had one testicle and one ovary. ANd then there is ample evidence that gender is formed in the mind as well as n our anatomy. SO when dealing with an infant how would you choose to make their anatomy male or female?
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Logically one has to go with the information one has at the time.
 
Pinga said:
@Jae - if the information that you have at the time is that the child has both gender presentations, then what do you do?
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What do you mean by, "gender presentations" here Pinga? We're dealing with an infant here - there isn't much behaviour that we can read into.
 
Jae said:
What do you mean by, "gender presentations" here Pinga? We're dealing with an infant here - there isn't much behaviour that we can read into.
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We are not talking about behaviour, jae. Some children are born with ambiguous sexual characteristics that are not clearly male or female. The question is, if presented with a child who is intersexed in that way and there is no clear way to define physically which they should be, how do you decide? Flip a coin? Whereas if you wait, then you get the chance to see how they present behaviourally as they age and they get a chance to have input on the decision.
 
I used to work in a facility where we changed diapers on adults and provided total care for them. We had two siblings who were intersexed. They were labelled and raised male. They were profoundly developmentally disabled, so we don't know if that was okay with them or not. Also, times were different then. What I did learn was that people can be born with birth male and female physical anatomy

I would wonder about the current standards of care for such a child. I'd also reach out for supports. I must certainly would not rush into any surgery.
 
Mendalla said:
We are not talking about behaviour, jae. Some children are born with ambiguous sexual characteristics that are not clearly male or female. The question is, if presented with a child who is intersexed in that way and there is no clear way to define physically which they should be, how do you decide? Flip a coin? Whereas if you wait, then you get the chance to see how they present behaviourally as they age and they get a chance to have input on the decision.
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I wouldn't be interested in getting a chance to read things into their behavior. I wouldn't be interested in getting the chance to push forward a liberal social agenda at a child's expense. While the child was an infant I would consult with medical professionals and my spouse, do some solid praying and fasting, and then make a decision.
 
Northwind said:
I used to work in a facility where we changed diapers on adults and provided total care for them. We had two siblings who were intersexed. They were labelled and raised male. They were profoundly developmentally disabled, so we don't know if that was okay with them or not. Also, times were different then. What I did learn was that people can be born with birth male and female physical anatomy

I would wonder about the current standards of care for such a child. I'd also reach out for supports. I must certainly would not rush into any surgery.
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Some folks will take pious stance on what they declare it to be ... thus jabberwocky ... someone carolled this nonsense in a fair Etale ... mythical hummer ... Singing San*s --- Jim Reeves as you aimes ...

Don;t look Alice ...
 
And we do know that decisions made for the child while early on in life often do not work out as planned
 
Jae said:
I wouldn't be interested in getting a chance to read things into their behavior. I wouldn't be interested in getting the chance to push forward a liberal social agenda at a child's expense. While the child was an infant I would consult with medical professionals and my spouse, do some solid praying and fasting, and then make a decision.
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And if the medical professionals told you that waiting is best? That there is no clear choice based on medical criteria and should be determined later. That could happen.
 
Mendalla said:
And if the medical professionals told you that waiting is best? Or that there is no clear choice based on medical criteria?
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At this point I feel I've shared all that I care too. Not interested in answering hypothetical questions till the cows come home.
 
In these situations, they are not hypthetical.

You are willing to make judgements on others, but not put yourself in their shoes
 
Jae said:
Planned by whom?
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In this instance the adults who are making the decisions. It may not be a conscious detailed plan but the very act of choosing a gender in such a circumstance will impact how you raise that child, will impact assumptions you make about who they are.
 
Pinga said:
In these situations, they are not hypthetical.

You are willing to make judgements on others, but not put yourself in their shoes
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Questions asked of me about what I would do if such and such were to occur are most certainly hypothetical Pinga.
 
GordW said:
In this instance the adults who are making the decisions. It may not be a conscious detailed plan but the very act of choosing a gender in such a circumstance will impact how you raise that child, will impact assumptions you make about who they are.
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Then describe this "not working out" of which @Northwind speaks.
 
*** bangs head on walll ***

Of course, there are many like @Jae who make judgement calls.
I wonder what we that are willing to look at the wider space and the challenge long-term of making a short-term decision -- what is our role in society, presuming that we don't have such a child born to us.

Are we to be open should we encounter such a situation -- basically welcoming.
Are we to have dialogues in places such as this one, to learn more about the situations of others?
Are we to shre information, more of the affirming portion of genders, or just be quiet & listen and nod.
 
I listened to an interesting radio program about gender recently. There is a movement to get rid of gendering labels in general. While I did not agree with all the arguments for it, they did make some good points. There are people raising their children in non-gendered ways and are not disclosing the sex of their child.

This is my long way of saying that it is easier to do this type of thing today. Children do not have to be raised according to proscribed gender roles, in spite of the aisles of "boy" toys and "girl" toys

My sister was one who challenged roles while growing up, having traits that earned her give label "tomboy". She has grown into a fully functioning adult woman. Allowing children to be who they are where they can fully develop their talents and gifts increases the chance they will grow to be healthy, well adjusted adults.
 
As a parent I would be fierce about anyone "pathologizing" my child & would try to protect them against feeling they were incomplete or they had a medical problem (unless they had). An affirming community would be essential.
Who knows how societal attitudes will shift in the future? Maybe soon there will not be the pressure to change anything.
 
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