Euthanasia in Canada, Supreme Court Ruled this Morning

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
People think that the horrors from history can never be repeated and fail to see the tops of the slippery slopes when they arise. The CCPD is pointing out those slopes pertaining to LAS - and you're coming down on me as if I was the first to see it.
 
Kimmio said:
People who are mainstream who happen to have disabilities. Those who are poor struggling for equality - to live as they want to live continue to be oppressed and don't stand a chance if society doesn't change - and people only want to see it from their vantage point - not from the lowest strata where the majority of people with disabilities are at, or at risk of.
Click to expand...
So I'm what? Not disabled enough for my opinion to count?
Because I am mainstream as you see it, it doesn't matter that I don't think societal changes are all what's needed for me to not be disabled?
 
Chemgal, you raise an interesting point.

I wonder when people would consider their life at the point when they would seek out a doctor.

Now, I remember being 11 and clearly saying, I don't want to live past 40. Those folks are ...yuck", "life is over". I remember turning 40 and thinking , please, don't let their be a God that takes individual wishes literally.

As I approach 60, I think 90 is looking pretty good. Knowing some 90 year old,s they are thinking 100 is looking good.

But there are some things now that I think, if I get to that point , I personally, don't wish to go on. It is personal , and it is about my own self, what I value about me, and what I would consider unable to survive.

So, I'm curious, folks.....what are your points, have you thought of them. What interviews resonate with you. What interviews don't?
 
You people are discussing the power to choose when to die with dignity because life has declined for you - and I am talking about people who have never really had the power to choose how to live with dignity, equality, who are fighting for that still.
 
Fine, have a discussion about that.

Do not deny the right to die with dignity.


It is like saying
Kimmio: I want fruit
Pinga: Yes, I know you want fruit. That's great. I want pie
Kimmio: I want fruit. Your want for pie is keeping the waitress busy. I want fruit
Pinga: yes, I know you want fruit. I would like pie. Can I have pie?
Kimmio: No, I only frwnat fruit.
Pinga: Well, I respect your right to have fruit. You are welcome to have all the fruit you want. I would like pie.
Kimmio: I want fruit. You shouldn't have pie.
Pinga: I understand you want fruit. I don't understand why you would tell the waiter not to give me pie.
Kimmio: I want fruit.
PInga: yes, I am happy to help you get fruit, but I would really like some pie.
Kimmio: I find your desire for pie is a social issue, you are obese, you shouldn't have pie. You are consuming resources.
Pinga: Yes, to all of that; however, I would like pie. My chose about my body is not impacting you, an I may choose ot have fruit tomorrow, but today, I feel like pie.
Kimmio: I want fruit.
 
Kimmio said:
You people are discussing the power to choose when to die with dignity because life has declined for you - and I am talking about people who have never really had the power to choose how to live with dignity, equality, who are fighting for that still.
Click to expand...
I would like to weigh in here. I'm for dignity.
 
Yeah the people who were always able to reach the tree picked all the fruit and decided to put it in the pie. People waiting for the fruit to drop because they had no choice had no say in the matter.
 
Kimmio: I want fruit. You are using all the fruit for your pie. I want fruit.
Pinga: Aaah, so you would like to talk about equitable distribution of fruit?
Kimmio: I only get the fruit on the floor. You get all the pie.
Pinga: Do you want to talk about equitable distribution of fruit?
Kimmio: I want fruit. I don't want you have to pie.
 
Pinga said:
Kimmio: I want fruit. You are using all the fruit for your pie. I want fruit.
Pinga: Aaah, so you would like to talk about equitable distribution of fruit?
Kimmio: I only get the fruit on the floor. You get all the pie.
Pinga: Do you want to talk about equitable distribution of fruit?
Kimmio: I want fruit. I don't want you have to pie.
Click to expand...

Yes. But you have gone straight to the pie before considering who's been without fruit since the 70s - actually in all of history - who is left vulnerable by the makers of the pie.

I have been saying for a week basically that the fruit needs to be shared at ground level where everyone can get access to it. As long as the standard is the ability to climb trees the those waiting on the ground never have an equal say in their livelihoods - and those who climb trees hoard all the fruit and decide what to do with it.
 
Last edited:
Hah, you see, there you go again.

Would you like to ask "how can I get fruit". would you like to ask me, can you help us get fruit? nope. Would you even like to talk about the lack of fruit resources? nope. You want to say to me "you can't have pie."

Quite happy to discuss how to ensure that the vulnerable get fruit or pie, whichever is their choice.
 
The vulnerable have been saying what they need for 40 years. Equality. And those holding all the fruit are saying that because they don't climb trees and maybe never did - they should figure out how or be happy with what gets dropped from above. And that leaves them in a tough spot if those who aren't enjoying their pie anymore take precedence over those who never had any fruit to decide what to do with.
 
People with disabilities, as a unified rights movement, have identified what they need and how to get it. Listen. Support them to get there. That's it. There is a whole field of study called disability studies. Learn about it. Be open to it. Learn where inequality exists and what perpetuates it from the point of view of those who have always been unequal. Don't just shut me down as if I pulled it out of nowhere.
 
Kimmio, no one is denying that there are rights and inequalities.

You presume that I have no knowledge of this topic,

You presume that by allowing individuals to make choices that it stops you from making a choice.

Again, you presume too much.
 
Pinga said:
Question

Can you also recognize that the dying also have rights?
Click to expand...

Yes. I recognize. I also recognize that the right to live and be equal with impairment has to be put into this law to protect people from assumptions creeping about what impairment is worth living for or not. Do you understand how such attitudes creep into everyday consciousness? Good example...Bette, upthread, suggesting that perhaps her friend who'd been trying everything for a better quality of life would've prefered death? Instead of recognizing her friend's struggle for life. This suggestion was not made maliciously - but it's the sort of thing that can begin a steady decline on the slippery slope.

So, suppose people with chronic illness were to start giving up - it becomes a popular option to choose death over life - and government looks at the coffers and determines how much money it saves the state? Don't think it could ever happen? Don't think that would ever be a factor? what does that mean for those who want to live? No implications for them about the value of their life?
 
Last edited:
I think there has to be clear boundaries around who can choose assisted death - terminally ill perhaps, elderly perhaps. And very high criteria must be met. I don't think someone should be allowed without counselling first.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top