Confirmation Versus Adult Baptism

[BetteTheRed]

Not really sure I might understand any difference between adult baptism and confirmation?

Because my parents were atheists who had no interest in religion, and I did, I was both baptized and confirmed on the same day, at about age 12.

How are these things different - an adult baptism and a 'confirmation' of one's infant baptism?

 

[Jaebius]

Because my parents were atheists who had no interest in religion, and I did, I was both baptized and confirmed on the same day, at about age 12.

Really? I imagine that's unusual. Were you sprinkled, poured over, or immersed at age 12?

How are these things different - an adult baptism and a 'confirmation' of one's infant baptism?

Okay, so to begin with, I wouldn't call believer's baptism "adult baptism." This is because one isn't required to be an adult to be credobaptized. In my experience, some children get immersed, as do many teens. Albeit, it is usually adults who are dunked.

I feel that both confirmation and believer's baptism can be deeply meaningful to the person being confirmed or credobaptized. Moreover, I'd say that confirmation can be just as meaningful for one person as believer's baptism can be to another. That said, I feel they can each rather be rather spiritually meaningless for the person involved. What I mean is, in both churches that practice confirmation and those with believer's baptism, there can be pressure on youths to be confirmed or baptized not because they're ready for it, but just because they're of the "right age." Personally, I've experienced this pressure most in the United Church I grew up in. As a group of us were in late middle school and early high school, it was made clear to us that we were expected to form a confirmation class.

Another thing I'll share is that while I do believe that a biblical case can be made for confirmation, I believe that believer's baptism is much more clearly set out in the Bible as being normative for believers. It's of note, I feel, that all of the baptisms in the New Testament were done by immersion. I know of no recorded case of infant baptism in the New Testament. That alone, I hold, is sound reason to especially hold credobaptism dear.

 

[revsdd]

Not really sure I might understand any difference between adult baptism and confirmation?

Because my parents were atheists who had no interest in religion, and I did, I was both baptized and confirmed on the same day, at about age 12.

How are these things different - an adult baptism and a 'confirmation' of one's infant baptism?

To be both baptized and confirmed on the same day would be redundant. Baptism is baptism. Confirmation is confirmation of the promises that were made by your parents when you were baptized as an infant. If you were old enough to make your own promises when you were baptized, there's no need to confirm them.

 

[Pinga]

Hah, didn't realize that but totally logical.

 

[Ichthys]

I grew up in an Adventist upbringing and as an atheist now, adult baptism seems to be the only ethical thing to do. I don't think anyone should baptize or circumcise people before they can't freely make that decision for themselves.

 

[Jaebius]

I grew up in an Adventist upbringing and as an atheist now, adult baptism seems to be the only ethical thing to do. I don't think anyone should baptize or circumcise people before they can't freely make that decision for themselves.

Why not? Parents make all kinds of choices for their children before their children are old enough to choose for themselves.

 

[Seeler]

Unfortunately, I think Jae is right that at one time teenagers (somewhere between 12 and 15) were expectedd by family and church to take confirmation classes and be confirmed.
Fortunately, it seems that this is not so common any longer. The announcement is made, people are invited (and some may be pressured by parents but not the church) and classes are organized. Not just the senior Sunday School class, but with many adults now coming into the church with little or no UCC background, there may be as many adults as teens - sometimes resulting in two different groups taking classes. Confirmation Sunday is chosen - but it is not expected that everyone taking classes will choose to be confirmed. I have known adults to take the classes several times over the years before (if) they choose to be confirmed. Some people in the classes might already have been confirmed but decide to take the classes anyway (to catch up - or support a friend) and they may (or not) renew their vows. Some teens might also decide that they aren't ready - although I suspect that they talk it over amongst themselves and there might be a bit of peer pressure in the group.

 

[Luce NDs]

I grew up in an Adventist upbringing and as an atheist now, adult baptism seems to be the only ethical thing to do. I don't think anyone should baptize or circumcise people before they can't freely make that decision for themselves.

You either get the strange eternal sensation or not? This may go on for some time ... sometimes not ... due to quantum reality ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Why not? Parents make all kinds of choices for their children before their children are old enough to choose for themselves.

Some children of god just don't have the adequate information to process into wisdom ... the intellect is scattered in the emotionally dynamic range ... sort of like ghost writers ... scattering essence and Phantoms ...

Much of this due to aversion to science ... an old word for observation if you can't see the understanding there ... may require some levity in the transcendence ...

Then there is the Wiki'd concept of a Bimbo ... depending on the tradition ... divers stuff to learn? Check out Wikipaedea ... related to learning paedia ... gets you a foot in ded ore ...

Just beyond the oral stage ... one learns to listen for a great spell ... the hex of learning in 6 parts before the 7th when the lights come back on in GEO Gaia ... a collective effort! If now, we could only get it together and do social banter ... funny's tuff ...

 

[Seeler]

I grew up in an Adventist upbringing and as an atheist now, adult baptism seems to be the only ethical thing to do. I don't think anyone should baptize or circumcise people before they can't freely make that decision for themselves.

Ichthys - there is quite a difference between circumcision and baptism. Circumcision involves physically altering part of the body - baptism is simply sprinkling or immersing in water. For those who don't believe it has no more effect than a shower or a dunking in a swimming pool.

 

[Luce NDs]

Can one rightfully cut out the loose portions ... as these may cause distinct connections ... maybe knot ...

 

[KayTheCurler]

Unfortunately, I think Jae is right that at one time teenagers (somewhere between 12 and 15) were expectedd by family and church to take confirmation classes and be confirmed.

It became patently obvious to me that in my childhood congregation that the kids viewed confirmation as a church leaving certificate. Parents told their kids - 'you will go to Sunday School until you get confirmed, after that you can choose. ' They chose to leave.

I declined confirmation for several years as I wanted to go to church. Not sure why I bothered really. There was no one else near my age there and no adult member of the congregation showed any interest in talking to me.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Of my two, my daughter, about 13, decided she wanted to be confirmed, and was so. She's rarely been seen in a church since, although she is my congregation's part-time cleaning staff.

My son declined to be confirmed, yet he is the one to be found most Sundays hanging around a church.

 

[BetteTheRed]

To be both baptized and confirmed on the same day would be redundant. Baptism is baptism. Confirmation is confirmation of the promises that were made by your parents when you were baptized as an infant. If you were old enough to make your own promises when you were baptized, there's no need to confirm them.

Perhaps in the UCCan, but this was in the Missouri Synod Lutheran denomination.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Neither of my children were baptized as infants, but were when I joined the UCCan when they were 9 and 6.

 

[revjohn]

Perhaps in the UCCan, but this was in the Missouri Synod Lutheran denomination.

Doesn't matter where it happened. It was still redundant.

Don't know whether that is a Missouri thing or a Lutheran thing.

 

[Mystic]

I was baptized by immersion at age 11 in a large tank behind the platform of Calvary Temple, Winnipeg. I agreed to this partly due to parental pressure and partly because I knew Jesus commanded His followers to be baptized. First, I had to attend a few catechetical classes. I was the only child present among a dozen adults. The lessons were far too abstract and jargonized for my youthful mind. The teacher talked about justification, sanctification, and propitation, which amounted to so much excruciation for my puzzled and bored mind. I was also told that I needed to be "circumcised in spirit," which might have been fine if I knew what physical circumcision was! Then when Sunday night came, I was horrified to learn that I'd be expected to give my personal faith testimony before the 1,500 gathered to witness our baptisms. Each of the dozen adults gave a rather mechanical testimony, but when I waded out to the pastor, I felt humiliated when he asked, "Donny, would you like to testify to what the Lord Jesus has done in your life?" Terrified, I nodded my head negatively, and imagined the congregations groaning their disapproval. The pastor then asked me a serious of questions requiring a yes or no answer, At that point, I felt so embarrased that I just wanted to get it over with.

But after Pastor Barber immersed me and I rose out of the water, I unexpectedly had a vision of Jesus in the corner of the tank. He smiled at me, radiating love and understanding of my predicament. I like to think he found it amusing that a future motor mouth like me would be the only baptizand who was tongue-tied, That visionary encounter transformed a dreaded experience into one of the most sacred and cherished moments of my life. Years later, I learned that, in the NT church. baptism and our reception of the Holy Spirit were closely connected and the reception of the Spirit was expected to be a sacred experience and not just a duty to be performed.

 

[crazyheart]

I thought confirmation was renamed "re-affirmation of baptisimal vows"? anyone?

 

[GeoFee]

Hi,

Calvary Temple, Winnipeg

I lived for some time in an apartment at the corner of Hargrave and Cumberland. I sometimes crossed the street to sit in on Pastor Barber's sermons.

Another poster, Pontifex Geronimo, also attended services at Calvary Temple. Did you or do you know him? Guess this would be difficult to determine as we employ pseudonyms in this place.

Small world!

George

 

[Mystic]

Come to think of it, I do recall a guy at Calvary Temple named Geronimo. We nicknamed him "chief!"

Sigh! Back to sprinkling vs. dunking. There is no evidence for any form of baptism other than immersion in the NT church. But in semi-arid areas, rivers, streams, and lakes were often scarce. In my view, this shortage led to sprinkling as a convenient alternative. NT statements about baptizing "whole households" were later interpreted to include infant baptism, which in turn encouraged the view that infant baptism was a Christian substitute for Jewish circumcision. I doubt that God cares about how the water is applied, as long as the original meaning of baptism is honored. Romans 6 construes baptism in terms of dying to the old nature and rising as a new creature in Christ by participating in HIs resurrection power. That symbolism fits best with immersion. As a pastor, I was in the precarious position of favoring immersion, while lacking a baptismal tank for performing the ritual. So all my baptisms were sprinklings. I justified this inconsistency to myself on the grounds that I used Roman 6's imager of dying and rising with Christ to explain the meaning of my sprinklings.
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My baptisms created 2 dilemmas for me: (1) Members would question the legitimacy of baptizing the children of people who never attended church because the parents had no intention of fulfilling their extensive baptismal vows. Even if I agreed with this, I didn't think it was my place to withhold baptism because of a lack of parental commitment to raise their child to be a God-fearing, church-attending believer. I thought, "Maybe at some point in their lives, they'll remember that they made these vows and then their vows might become more meaningful to them."

(2) My other dilemma was whether to permit believers to be rebaptized. My minister colleagues often objected to rebaptisms on the grounds that the NT makes it clear that baptism is a once-in-a-lifetime event. But sometimes people explained their request this way: "I was baptized as an infant, but my family had no Christian involvement; so my baptism meant nothing to me. But now I have become a devout Christian and I want to be rebaptized so that I can experience just how sacred baptismal commitment is." I usually considered such a rationale sufficient grounds for rebaptism.