Becoming A Saint

[Mendalla]

We moderns revere film stars or royalty or other other famous people whose claim to fame is mere (in)fame, and who lead less than exemplary lives.

"We moderns"? Speak for yourself. I, for one, do not revere any of those, though I would likely put some of the film stars a bit ahead of the royalty. If I "revere" anyone as a modern saint, it would be seekers of knowledge like Sagan, Hawking, Einstein or crusaders for change like King or Malala. And revere would be a bit of a stretch. I see them as exemplars and promoters of ideals I agree with rather than as "saints".

 

[Luce NDs]

Geesh Mendalla, That's sounds like a humanist connection to rationality ... in a world conditioned to irrational behaviour of the ideal of free wiles ... generally thorns in the ass ... or in Hermann's father tongue ... Klein's ... the other sect as pricks of the unconscious type? Such can cause awakening ... once presented as apostolic sensation ... sometime likened to Jacques bean stalked by the monster ... cosmological psyche? This shadow always bothers real men ... in the fear of exposure ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Jayne in the arcane sense of classic screwup ...

 

[Hermann]

"We moderns"? Speak for yourself. I, for one, do not revere any of those, though I would likely put some of the film stars a bit ahead of the royalty. If I "revere" anyone as a modern saint, it would be seekers of knowledge like Sagan, Hawking, Einstein or crusaders for change like King or Malala. And revere would be a bit of a stretch. I see them as exemplars and promoters of ideals I agree with rather than as "saints".

Yes, Mendalla, some film stars are accomplished actors and deserve admiration, whereas most royals are famous by mere accident of birth.

Well, I admire the same people as you. When I say "we moderns" this only means that I don't want to set myself above the rabble. (Oops, I think I just did.)

 

[Jaebius]

Yes, Mendalla, some film stars are accomplished actors and deserve admiration, whereas most royals are famous by mere accident of birth.

Well, I admire the same people as you. When I say "we moderns" this only means that I don't want to set myself above the rabble. (Oops, I think I just did.)

I'm more surprised :O that anyone is still self-identifying as being a "modern."

 

[Waterfall]

It seems canonization of saints in the Roman Catholic church has only been around since the tenth century. For hundreds of years before this, saints were chosen by public acclaim. In fact early Christians as early as 100AD, were honoring other Christians who had been martyred and began asking for their intercession after their deaths. Some of the "saints" stories were created by legend, pagan mythology or other religions and some never existed. Because of this, it was decided that Vatican approval was required for approving saints back in the 15th century. Some say the first saint canonized was St. Swibert by Pope Leo III in 804.

In 1969, the Vatican began to seriously question some of their saints and their calendar went through a reform. One saint that I'm sure we all recognize, was St. Christopher, once considered the patron saint of travellers, was taken off the list. It was determined the basis for his sainthood was mostly legend.
In 1983, Pope John II, made sweeping changes for the canonization process.

http://www.catholic.org/saints/faq.php

Official explanation for "unsainting" desainting? is there a word for it?

http://w2.vatican.va/content/paul-v...motu-proprio_19690214_mysterii-paschalis.html

 

[Waterfall]

"We moderns"? Speak for yourself. I, for one, do not revere any of those, though I would likely put some of the film stars a bit ahead of the royalty. If I "revere" anyone as a modern saint, it would be seekers of knowledge like Sagan, Hawking, Einstein or crusaders for change like King or Malala. And revere would be a bit of a stretch. I see them as exemplars and promoters of ideals I agree with rather than as "saints".

Surprised I didn't see Spock on the list.

 

[Hermann]

I'm more surprised :O that anyone is still self-identifying as being a "modern."

You mean the modern identification is "post-modern?"

Well, we post a lot here on the cafe, so we might as well regard ourselves as "post" modern, eh?

 

[Jaebius]

You mean the modern identification is "post-modern?"

Well, we post a lot here on the cafe, so we might as well regard ourselves as "post" modern, eh?

North American culture is now post-modern.

 

[Waterfall]

Sainthood does make me wonder, if it could also be another way we "add" to the Bible. After all, the apostle Paul's experience does dominate a large part of the New Testament even though beyond that Christianity does continue. Many more after Paul had just as remarkable experiences, spread the gospel, planted churches, etc... but we are told not to add to the Bible. Is this a way around that? Could this just be another way that we can honor many others experiences of faith that will encourage us throughout our own journey?

 

[Mendalla]

Surprised I didn't see Spock on the list.

Well, Leonard Nimoy would be one of those actors that I "revere" more than royals . As for Spock, that's hard. There are fictional characters I admire and find wisdom in (Spock and Yoda come immediately to mind) but because they are someone's creation (multiple someones in many cases once you account for the actor, the writers, etc.) they don't seem real enough to be "revered" so much as just memorable.

 

[Mendalla]

North American culture is now post-modern.

But post-modernism is a cultural phenomenon, not a personal one. Just because a person lives in a post-modern culture does not make that person a "post-modern" unless they actually adopt that culture and, to be honest, many do not. Much of the conflict we see in Anglo-American culture is arguably modernist attitudes like fundamentalism and old school liberalism dealing with the post-modern culture.

 

[revjohn]

RevJohn, I said that _praying_ to saints is not a part of my belief system.

Is the Father not holy? What about the Son? And if not them it is a holy Spirit you pray to is it not?

Saint comes from the Greek "hagios" meaning: sacred, blameless, consecrated, most holy one or thing. Would you not describe all members of the Trinity as sacred, blameless, most holy?

 

[Waterfall]

This is the video that spurred me on to start this thread.This is Peter Kreeft and I have referenced him. I think it's about an hour?

 

[Luce NDs]

Are the best actors of righteousness at the head of institutions ... consider Ottawa an institution ... the peace tower being difficult to move ... thus conflict can go on out there ... fringe activity of the nature of polity ... extremism beyond common detection!

 

[Delightful Life]

[image source: google image search]

& ty waterfall, for Peter Kreeft