becoming a minister

[KayTheCurler]

Can we talk about the process of becoming a minister or pastor? I confess - I don't quite understand the broad or the finer points.

Some people just seem to declare that they are opening a church and will be the pastor.
Some attend one or more years at a Bible School and then start 'ministering'.
Some take a degree at a Bible School (are these truly the equivalent of a university degree?).
Some study theology at an accredited university.
Some are employed as a subordinate pastor - some get to pastor an established congregation.
Some get lots of practical experience ahead of time - teaching within their current congregation (study classes, Sunday School, visiting the shut-ins, aging, the bereaved etc).

Are there particular character traits that congregations look for in a new pastor? Good communication skills maybe, or a warm personality? Is it necessary to have a good command of English, both spoken and written?

I know one well educated person who applied to several established denominations and didn't land a job. Presumably the interviewers sensed a problem of some sort. This didn't stop him from opening his own church - he loved the sound of his own voice. Someone pointed out that he made his own platform to speak from!

Any thoughts??

 

[crazyheart]

Well, Kay , there are many streams of ministry in the UCCan. One way to be ordained would be to go to a Theology
college like St. Andrews in Saskatoon. However, as I understand it, you must have a degree from an University to enroll.
.I don't think it matters what the degree is for. Then after 4 years at University and 3 or 4 years at St. Andrews and this is where I get mixed up because it has changed. The Settlement Committee settled the student at a church. I don't know if this happens any more. Someone will come by and straighten me out I am sure.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I realise there a many branches of Christianity - with UCCan being one of them. It sounds like the ministers in that denomination are well educated. Some other congregations have ministers with a mere year or so of Bible School. Do you think education is crucial to being a useful pastor or is having a 'good heart' and 'good intentions' more important?

 

[BetteTheRed]

I think that a minimum level of education is necessary to accept a position of leadership over a group's spiritual well-being. For sort of two reasons at two different stages, and probably some combination in between:

As a young person, to acquire a certain level of knowledge before one inflicts oneself, green as grass and hopefully scared as hell, upon a group.
As an older person, as an acknowledgement that, as broad as a lifetime of experience may have been, an intellectual understanding that other people have done a lifetime of learning so that they can pass on the best of their particular bit of knowledge - from the psychological underpinnings of human nature and the way it clans up, to an understanding of how the sacred text was constructed and to what purpose, to tips and tricks for effective public speaking, through a mechanical understanding of the tools one can use to foster one's own spiritual development, etc.)

 

[revjohn]

Can we talk about the process of becoming a minister or pastor? I confess - I don't quite understand the broad or the finer points.

Sure we can. Be mindful that there are as many different ways of becoming a minister or pastor as there are denominations so anything thought to be normative is only normative within a certain context.

Some people just seem to declare that they are opening a church and will be the pastor.

Truthfully I don't think it is actually that simple. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen. I don't think it is that common. There are some independent congregations that appear to come together this way. I'm not sure what their shelf-life turns out to be. More often than not church plants happen with a church planter (in the employ of a larger denomination) doing grass root ministry and starting with a house church or churches and moving to a small congregation with hopes of something more.

It is not uncommon for affiliation with the mother Church to be downplayed because of the post-modern default of suspicion towards institutions and authorities.

Some attend one or more years at a Bible School and then start 'ministering'.

Which reflects, at least to some small degree, that the individuals are not anti-intellectual though Bible Colleges tend to have a denominational affiliation at some point and that means the Bible College will have a bias towards certain scholarship. They may not be aiming towards a degree but tend to aim at achieving a diploma or certiicate of somekind.

Some take a degree at a Bible School (are these truly the equivalent of a university degree?).

Schools are nominally under the oversight of the Province or State in which they reside. Some Provinces and/or States have criteria in place restricting the degrees which may be offered as accredited. Some Provinces or States (Ontario for example) will not permit a school which has not gone through the accreditation process to grant a Bachelor of Arts degree. For some time Redeemer University College in Ancaster could only grant a Bachelor of Christian Studies in the various programs. Sometime after 1993 the Province of Ontario agreed to change their charter and allow them to grant Bachelor of Arts Degrees. This agreement was grandfathered and any graduate of Redeemer with a B.C.S could return it to the university and be awarded a B.A. if they chose to. I declined the invitation as the Government recognized the degrees (B.C.S and B.A. were equivalent) and so changing the piece of paper didn't actually give me advanced standing anywhere.

Some study theology at an accredited university.

Most Bible Schools are accredited. The question is the body which gives them accreditation.

Some are employed as a subordinate pastor - some get to pastor an established congregation.

It is a matter of how field placement is worked into the education process. It is also a matter of Supervision. Some denominations (ie., UCCAN traditionally did field placements in between academic years or terms so that upon graduation the individual in question is eligible for ordination/commissioning.

Other denominations put the academic pieces first and put the bulk of field training in between graduation from the school and ordination. If memory serves the Anglican Church uses this model with most graduates from school being ordained to the office of deacon before being ordained to the office of priest.

Some get lots of practical experience ahead of time - teaching within their current congregation (study classes, Sunday School, visiting the shut-ins, aging, the bereaved etc).

This is another model of education which was meant to work for individuals who were not in a position to commit to the academic workload as most Seminaries envision it. The idea was more on-the-job training and while it is generally a longer program from start to finish it allows the student to be gainfully employed along the way.

Are there particular character traits that congregations look for in a new pastor? Good communication skills maybe, or a warm personality? Is it necessary to have a good command of English, both spoken and written?

Depends on how the new minister comes to the congregation. In a call system yes, the Congregation picks from a pool of available clergy to get the minister/pastor they think is best equipped to meet their needs. In an appointment system matching is done by a Bishop or settlement committee and everyone hopes that the matches made work out.

I know one well educated person who applied to several established denominations and didn't land a job. Presumably the interviewers sensed a problem of some sort.

It happens.

This didn't stop him from opening his own church - he loved the sound of his own voice. Someone pointed out that he made his own platform to speak from!

I'm guessing that he did this independent of some denominational oversight.

 

[KayTheCurler]

Revjohn - is a degree from a Bible School considered the equal of a degree from a university? If someone had a document saying they had a BA from Muddy Plain Bible School would it get them into a Masters course at Uni?

Yes, the person who created his own platform (or pulpit, I suppose) just said that he was a pastor and people accepted that, I think.

 

[Carolla]

It likely depends on who's considering the request. In many professions (my own included), there is a credentialing body that evaluates equivalencies to permit practice. I would think Universities would have their own evaluation of those from outside its walls who were applying to do advanced degrees. Could be from other schools, from overseas, etc.

 

[revjohn]

Revjohn - is a degree from a Bible School considered the equal of a degree from a university? If someone had a document saying they had a BA from Muddy Plain Bible School would it get them into a Masters course at Uni?

It would depend on the receiving institution.

Queen's was very eager to have me transfer out of Redeemer into their school. Though upon graduation they were no longer interested in having me as a student.

Emmanuel went to the nearly unprecedented length of inviting me in for an interview though it was very obvious from the time I walked into the room that it was a formality and I would not be attending there either.

Neither St. Andrew's, St. Stephen's or AST bothered to acknowledge receipt of any application I made to them.

VST was all too happy to welcome me in and there was no evidence that I lagged behind the rest of my class in competency or general knowledge.

Most institutions are suspicious of untried or untested degrees. In the case of Muddy Plain Bible School graduates from there would likely need to submit a comprehensive application including the syllabi from all classes and written submissions from the student in order to get a grasp of what was taught and how the student responded.

It was a requirement in the past that individuals taking their M.Div at seminaries not within the UCCAN fold that those students be expected to transfer and complete a qualifying year. Given that UCCAN approved seminaries are rapidly going the way of the Dodo I expect that the denomination will have to revisit that understanding.

I don't know if any other candidate for ministry in the UCCAN has through Redeemer since they had their charter changed by the Province of Ontario so I don't know if those individuals would face the same discrimination I dealt with.

A classmate of mine at VST came from an undergraduate school in BC that I had never heard of. He struggled through the first year and did not return for the second.

 

[Mendalla]

The UUA follows a fairly rigorous process for bringing ministers into what is known as fellowship, all overseen by the Ministerial Fellowship Committee of the UUA. There is a multistage (applicant, aspirant, candidate) process of interviews, education, experience ending with an interview with the MFC. Transfers from other faiths are accepted but there must be a demonstrated commitment to UU'ism (there is a long list of ways to demonstrate this) and possibly some additional training before interviewing with the MFC.

Core education is an MDiv from either one of the two UUA-affiliated theology schools (both in the US) or a school with a program recognized by the UUA (VST and Emmanuel are two in Canada). For degrees not from an affliliated or recognized program, the candidate has to demonstrate how it meets the rather detailed educational requirements of the MFC. For those not going to one of the UUA schools, there is also a requirement for training in UU polity, history, etc. if it cannot be obtained in their MDiv program. There are also career development programs, mentoring, internships, and the like. Full information is at http://www.uua.org/careers/ministers/becoming/index.shtml.

All that said, we are congregational. A UU congregation can, technically, call and ordain anyone as its minister. However, not following the UUA settlement process (which only settles fellowshipped ministers or candidates who have reached a certain level in the program) means foregoing the support mechanisms that the UUA offers fellowshipped ministers and their congregations.

Of course, many smaller UU churches forego professional ministry altogether, either due to finances or philosophy. Mine is going that way, though we currently retain a quarter-time consulting minister (who also works for CUC) to help in the transition. That ends next June, I believe.

 

[Bronwyn Corlett]

For more information on becoming a minister in the United Church of Canada please check out: http://united-church.ca/entering
This prezi should be particularly helpful: http://prezi.com/ivfjbkvkftuu/pathways-to-ministry-the-united-church-of-canada/
Also check out the stories about ministers describing their call and why they love ministry: http://united-church.ca/entering/stories

Great question!

 

[crazyheart]

@Bronwyn Corlett Welcome to the Café.

 

[chansen]

Hey @Bronwyn Corlett. Assuming that's your real name, it's a very cool name.

If it's a handle, you're very creative.

 

[crazyheart]

Its a Scot or Welsh name

 

[chansen]

Of that I am aware, but even the full name, it rolls off the tongue so nicely, especially for a rather uncommon first name in this part of the world.

I recall reading Lake Wobegon Days by Garrison Keillor years ago, and the newscaster character Frank Black, who changed his name from "Francis" just because of how it sounded when you read his new name aloud. Some names just sound cool when put together.

Maybe I'm alone on that one. I always thought my name sounded awkward.

 

[revjohn]

The Reverend Bronwyn Corlett is the Program Co-ordinator of Ministry Recruitment at the General Council Office.

We've met, ever so briefly at a Ministry in Motion Conference a few years ago.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Lovely. As long as she has no expectations that we'll behave, lololol.....

Chansen, I like your name. It's like you - a little abrupt, sensible, to the point. My godparents' last name is Hansen, though, and they both have/had monosyllabic first names, so my ear is prejudiced.

 

[chansen]

I usually find soft sounds at the start of a last name awkward. They tend to get skipped during pronounciation. I come across as Craig Anson a lot. If the first name ends in a soft sound, it's even worse to my ear. Imagine if we named out daughter "Hannah", as in "Hannah Hansen". Confusion everywhere.

 

[KayTheCurler]

Double the difficulty if your imaginary daughter meets a Cockney! Likely she would find her name sounding a bit like Anna Ransen.

 

[revjohn]

Lovely. As long as she has no expectations that we'll behave, lololol.....

I can't speak for the Reverend Corlett's expectations of any to behave.

I have have laboured long and hard to convince the powers that be within the denomination that such an expectation is not one I am likely to rise to.

 

[KayTheCurler]

I am enjoying the thoughts showing up in this thread. Maybe I should broaden my question a bit?

What role (if any) do you see clergy playing in the overall presentation of Christianity to those outside the faith? I met someone who was watching, listening and thinking about this a while back. She was expressing her confusion to me as different clergy (even sometimes in the same denomination) said different things. Several said "You can't follow Jesus unless you belong to a particular church congregation". A couple said "Unless you belong to a church you cannot be spiritual". It sounded to me as if she was struggling to understand the 'big picture' and wasn't getting anywhere.

Do you think that clergy only need to act as role models for their own flock?