And God said it was good....

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GordW

GordW

Church-Geek-Oramus
Pronouns
He/Him/His
This Sunday those words are my preaching jumping off point.

Do we actually believe that all of Creation is good, as the first Creation story tells us? DO we act like it?

Remember that includes the mosquito, the measles virus, the bad driver who just cut you off...
 
I think it was good when the creation story was given to us but we (people) did so much to destroy it that some of the goodness disappeared.
 
Everything was perfect when first created. However - creation fell due to humanity's disobedience to God in Eden. Now - the perfection has been marred - and creation groans as it waits for its redemption. It's why Jesus came to earth on his rescue mission of salvation.
 
Pr. Jae said:
Everything was perfect when first created. However - creation fell due to humanity's disobedience to God in Eden. Now - the perfection has been marred - and creation groans as it waits for its redemption. It's why Jesus came to earth on his rescue mission of salvation.
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Ah yes the good old days eh! Since there was no such thing as perfect or good or bad at that time how could it be any of those things you mention?
 
I believe that all of Creation is good. Every piece has a role in the unfolding drama of Creation eve if every piece and every role is not understood all that well.

Further to that. I do not believe that Creation is fallen. Creation is not disciplined in the garden narrative. Specific creatures are. It may well be that we fallen beings no longer comprehend the intimate relationships we have with what we would so swiftly, and perhaps ignorantly, label as "bad" elements of Creation.

For example, a recent visit to Ryerson Camp brought me face to face with Poison Ivy. Ivy appears to love me and aesthetically Ivy is a bombshell one of the deepest, richest shades of green and such gorgeous and lush leaves. The environment of Ryerson Camp (reclaimed sand dune) is very, very kind to Ivy and she flourishes there like I have never seen elsewhere on the face of the planet.

My immune system cares for Poison Ivy not one whit. The merest contact produces a profound repulsion.

Never mind that Poison Ivy is a preferred staple in the diets of some animals (sheep and deer apparently love it).

I cannot touch it without regretting it. I cannot touch anything that has touched it without regretting it And the pernicious nature of the plant means that I can cross paths with it in ways I cannot even begin to understand. My most bizarre encounter was discovering it between my toes on my left foot one cold and blustery February.

God proclaims at the end of the Creation story that it is very good.

It is a particular quirk of human nature to want to find bad in what has been proclaimed good. It might be due to our not being as good as we ought or even as we want and a petulant desire to bring what has not fallen down to our level of goodness.
 
John, if God thought it was good, why did God, as the creator, let it deteriorate?
or is it only the fault of humans. Does God hold no responsibility?
 
Gord, i struggle with seeing all of creation is good. When I ponder it stories like rev john's of poison ivy or of the movie dead man walking remind me of the good that can be hidden from my eyes
 
Pinga, it is this point that makes me ask. Is the Creation story true ?

or is it a myth that some one wrote and the punch line

was " And God said it was good."?
 
crazyheart said:
Pinga, it is this point that makes me ask. Is the Creation story true ?

or is it a myth that some one wrote and the punch line

was " And God said it was good."?
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Every culture and/or religious affiliation seems to have a version of the creation story. We study some of them as myths. Attempts to explain something that is beyond our comprehension maybe? I like some of the creation stories of the Native Peoples. They seem more natural, probably because people had a closer relationship with the earth and its creatures.

I tend to think it is humans who have made a mess of the created world. We haven't been good caretakers and stewards in the past and we aren't getting any better.
Does every creature have a purpose, even mosquitoes? Well, they are food for birds. There are some pretty amazing critters on this planet. If you ever wish to see some of them, check out: http://www.projectnoah.org/
When I get stung by bees anywhere above the neck, I know I have to get to a hospital immediately because swelling is pretty quick, and I will have these 2 tiny eyes looking out through the puffiness. My whole head is distorted and hurts.
But I am a tireless advocate for all bees, especially honeybees, because I know their importance to our food source. I am encouraged to see so many bumble bees in my flowerbeds this year.
Black widow spiders....hmmmm.....are they food for something?
Good questions.
 
GordW said:
This Sunday those words are my preaching jumping off point.

Do we actually believe that all of Creation is good, as the first Creation story tells us? DO we act like it?

Remember that includes the mosquito, the measles virus, the bad driver who just cut you off...
Click to expand...

I know bats think the mosquito is "good".
I'm trying to think of a reason a virus woud be good, but can't off the top of my head.
As for the bad driver - the driver is good, the bad part of the driving that caused you to be cut off-wasn't created that way - that was either learned behavior or incorrectly learning the art of driving.
 
I do not generally think of the natural world in terms of “good” and “evil/bad”. Nature is what is and we live in, and as part of, that. As Gecko suggests, everything has its place whether you believe that is due to divine planning or natural selection. Volcanoes and earthquakes are a favorite of mine. Yes, they have killed uncounted millions of living beings, including humans, over the time life has existed on Earth. And yet, if there were no volcanoes and earthquakes, if Earth was tectonically dead, what would happen? Mars would happen. With no active core, there would be no magnetic field. With no magnetic field, the atmosphere would be stripped away by the solar wind taking much of the water with it and the surface would be bombarded by cosmic rays and other radiation. Life, if it existed at all, would consist mostly of microbes in underground pockets deep enough to provide some shelter.


However, I would suggest that, on the balance, existence is “good”. Why? We exist. Life exists. There is beauty. There is complexity and a balance to existence. The universe is not inimical to our existence, even if it is not perfectly attuned to making that existence comfortable. Does this mean there is a God? I don’t know. It’s a matter of faith. If there is, I do not believe it would be a transcendent, supernatural Creator/Judge but more likely an active, present deity like that of process theology.
 
Beloved said:
I'm trying to think of a reason a virus would be good, but can't off the top of my head.
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They are essential to existence. They help drive evolution by infecting cells and mixing DNA. I agree that in the static, one-time creation of young earth creationism, viruses seem purposeless. But when you look at evolution and how lifeforms change over time, viruses are part of the system just as everything else is. No viruses, no evolution, at least not as we know it.

Here is just one of many papers and abstracts that a search for "Viruses and Evolution" pulls up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14666532
 
I think that I agree with Mendalla that creation in itself is not so much 'good' or 'bad' - it just IS, and its goodness/badness lie in how we experience it. Hurricanes are not intrinsically bad or evil things - in fact, destructive phenomena serve a useful purpose in the natural world. However, those who live on the Gulf Coast probably have no love for them. Which is to say that I think 'good' and 'not good' are a matter of perspective when it comes to creation ... they are concepts that can only be perceived with the awareness/self-awareness that humans have. As such, while I believe there can be events with unfortunate results - and that people can have evil, or evil actions anyway, ascribed to them *because* they have that level of consciousness - it is not something inherent in creation.
 
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