An article "The church is killing its gay kids"

[Waterfall]

Nice - but not an exhaustive list. Fr'instance - they don't have information from my denomination.

Perhaps you could tell us where your denomination stands then?

 

[airclean33]

Unsafe posted ---
Paul addresses the issue of the woman is under the man -----

1 Timothy 2:8-15 amp

13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve;(A)
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but [the] woman who was deceived and deluded and fell into transgression.(B)
15 Nevertheless [the sentence put upon women of pain in motherhood does not hinder their souls’ salvation, and] they will be saved [eternally] if they continue in faith and love and holiness with self-control, [saved indeed][a]through the Childbearing or by the birth of the divine Child.

Airclean--Do you then believe Paul was preaching you can be saved by actions?
I think not he preached you are saved through Christ Jesus.

 

[Jaebius]

Here's a list of those who approve and don't approve of homosexuality if you scroll down further there's a chart:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominational_positions_on_homosexuality

As far as I know - my denomination has no official stance on homosexuality. Our churches are governed congregationally - so there may actually be differences from church to church. This is the way I feel it goes at my own particular church...

Church practices concerning persons who are currently in a homosexual relationship:

Allows as members: Perhaps. So long as they have been baptized by immersion, pass their interview with the Pastor or one of the Deacons, and are successfully voted in by the current membership.

Ordains: No; my church on its own doesn't have the authority to ordain anyone.

Blesses unions: No.

Marries: No.

 

[revsdd]

It's not just me who would think that. A potentially suicidal LGBT teen would, on average, find more acceptance in a group of random atheists, than a group of random Christians. Rita agrees with me. You do not. Others, who make a habit of not agreeing with me, talk in circles to avoid acknowledging the obvious answer head on.

Christianity remains the greatest hurdle to widespread acceptance of, and rights for, LGBT people. Not all of Christianity, but enough that everyone can see it. The title of this thread is in response to an article "The church is killing its gay kids". Not directly, of course, but the greater church is playing a role, and is indirectly contributing to the suicides (and murders) of young people. Rita gave you examples. I mean, Christian groups from the US helped draft Uganda's "Kill the gays" law!

How could a group of atheists help a child who believes they may be gay? For starters, they wouldn't phrase it like that. They would accept the person's self-identity, and not start with the assumption that they are wrong about what they feel inside, because they don't care what the bible says on the matter.

You changed the equation in your opening paragraph. Originally you spoke of a Christian group or an atheist group. Both waterfall and seeler correctly pointed out that a lot would depend on who was running the group(s). Now you're saying a random group of Christians as opposed to a random group of atheists. Not the same thing. Are we talking organized groups of Christians and atheists or just Christians and atheists randomly picked off the street?

If we're talking random, I'd agree that I'd rather see such teen with a random group of atheists, even though I'm unconvinced that atheist kids are more accepting than Christian kids and I rather suspect that even atheist kids might sometimes torment even straight kids they don't like with names like "faggot" etc., so who knows what they'd do to gay kids. But religious fanaticism can make a Christian (teen or adult) very ugly toward gays so if we're talking "random" then there would be too much danger of fanaticism in a random group. But if we're talking organized (which the wording of your opening post implied) I'd have no trouble finding organized Christian youth groups who I think would have more to offer such teen than an organized atheist group.

The responses you criticized were valid responses. You didn't like the responses so you changed the question.

 

[Luce NDs]

Faggots ???????

Random collections of twigs used to start fires ... talk about chance organization ... and the wayward wind is off and goan ... why we see demons dance in the fires of inquisition ... oli garchs don't like to be roasted ... or questioned in any manner of speak!

Silence or off with your head in the presence of those affiliated with roué-'Ls and the creation thereof ... you just know the rules will be bent to the advantage of a minor group .. and thus the "other's ID" theory as an alternate or opposing form as thought ... vs desires and wiles ... inclusive of coyotes ... auld lasses? They find sects and sex odd enough ... for humus ... you know funny chit ... activity that passes?

 

[airclean33]

Hi Unsafe your post----
God also says this -----Sickness and disease are listed as a curse --read Deuteronomy 28 ---No sickness or disease being inflicted is listed in the Blessings ---Health and a fruitful body is listed in the Blessings --

Airclean-- I was just wondering , how do you understand this from GODS word then?

Below are the exact phrases.

Mat 9:2 And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."

Mat 9:5 For which is easier, to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Rise and walk'?

Mar 2:5 And when Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "My son, your sins are forgiven."

I believe sins can" , have an effect , on your health. As you say Sister no big thing . We may think a bit different . But Christ is still our Lord" . God bless .airclean33 Gord.

 

[unsafe]

Hi airclean 33 ---Salvation comes through accepting Jesus only not by works -------this is my belief but that has nothing to do with what my point is ----my point is if the parents do not repent of their weaknesses in the flesh ------then the nature of their weaknesses is passed down from them to their children ---so for me and the way I think and believe Homosexuality is passed down ----as is uncontrolled desire for a thing like alcohol --gambling ------- etc is passed down ------I looked to see if there was something that I could post to you for the understanding I am trying to get across -------- This is an article and seems to explain what I am tying to convey ------it gives a chart that list weaknesses that we can experience and be passed down -----



Read all here ----interesting article ----http://www.restorationministries.org/pdf/hebraicArticles/DemolishingQuestionnaire.pdf

You Must Rid Yourselves of the Iniquity of Past Generations For the love of Jesus help your family and fellowship experience the freedom He promises.

You’ll never experience the freedom Jesus promises as long as there is iniquity or unconfessed sin in your family or fellowship!


What I am saying in what I believe is that iniquity is passed on and I believe this scripture -----it is said more than once ----

Numbers 14:18Amplified Bible (AMP)

18 The Lord is long-suffering and slow to anger, and abundant in mercy and loving-kindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and fourth generation.

Exodus 34:7Amplified Bible (AMP)
7
Keeping mercy and loving-kindness for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, but Who will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children, to the third and fourth generation.


You may not believe what I believe -------and that Brother is OK --We all have different views ------one thing is for sure ---all who accept Christ are saved and have eternal life and that is what is important -----as is for all people to know God loves them no matter what state they are in ------

Peace Brother and God Bless

 

[Luce NDs]

Right-Left side oppositions in de soul feature ... something mortals religiously deny as something right out of here ... simile for the OBI ...

po'lye understood and accepted by mortals unless friable ... fluid in nature (like wet clae)?

 

[airclean33]

And you do realize that sentencing people to a lifetime of celibacy just because they're not straight is cruel and unusual punishment? You don't have to be "very" homophobic to be "too" homophobic for the mental health of youth. ANYTHING other than full acceptance as normal, sexual human beings is homophobia.

--So what I read here is you think being married. Is all about having sex. I believe you have much to learn. As old age comes upon you and the person you chose . I would hope you have more than just that.

 

[airclean33]

Hi Unsafe --This is your post.

Hi airclean 33 ---Salvation comes through accepting Jesus only not by works -------this is my belief but that has nothing to do with what my point is ----my point is if the parents do not repent of their weaknesses in the flesh ------then the nature of their weaknesses is passed down from them to their children ---so for me and the way I think and believe Homosexuality is passed down ----as is uncontrolled desire for a thing like alcohol --gambling ------- etc is passed down ------I looked to see if there was something that I could post to you for the understanding I am trying to get across -------- This is an article and seems to explain what I am tying to convey ------it gives a chart that list weaknesses that we can experience and be passed down -----

Airclean-- This post is very plain Unsafe .I believe I pick up on what your saying. I have also said almost the same thing earlier in my posting. I am not gay" an as such do not understand the feelings a gay person may feel. I never by the way, said I did. As a women the same goes for you, as understanding of a mans feelings or what we deal with.As a man that is Christian, I must deal with my feelings by what GOD has said I can do, and those things I am not to do. I believe if your heterosexual or homosexual and wish to except Christ and walk with GOD. We must all follow that which GOD is saying..

 

[unsafe]

Hi airclean33 ---your quote -----I believe sins can" , have an effect , on your health

I believe guilt which is an after affect of committing the sin can cause illness which is a curse ---not a blessing -----I believe emotions stress will cause sickness and disease which is a curse not a blessing -----The sin itself cannot cause illness in my view it is the emotional breakdown of the after affects which affects the normal function of our bodies -----

Again this is just my belief -----Peace brings health and I know that for a fact -----I have not been sick for many years now -----no flu --no colds ----no disease --no illness -----I use to suffer greatly with migraines not now -----not even so much as a ache or pain -----I also had the start of arthritis ----it cleared itself up -----all gone ------no one disturbers my peace and if I do get a little stressed I quickly get my Bible and read and get my peace back ------

Satan works on us every minute of every day to keep us in turmoil ---I work to keep him out ------The parable of the sower for me is important -----plant the seeds deep ---let them take root ----keep them watered and allow the sun to do it's work -----and Keep the Weeds Out ---and your harvest will be great ------

God Bless Brother

 

[airclean33]

Yes Sister an you as well. airclean33 Gord.

 

[Waterfall]

How could a group of atheists help a child who believes they may be gay? For starters, they wouldn't phrase it like that. They would accept the person's self-identity, and not start with the assumption that they are wrong about what they feel inside, because they don't care what the bible says on the matter.

In fact atheist/secular countries are more likely to commit suicide than religious countries. It would be very unscientific to assume that religion is the main contributor for any suicide.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/more-religious-countries-lower-suicide-rates.aspx

So although, Christianity has it's own problems to address, it appears atheism does also.

I suggest everyone should contribute to ending teen suicide by addressing all issues.

 

[blackbelt1961]

In fact atheist/secular countries are more likely to commit suicide than religious countries. It would be very unscientific to assume that religion is the main contributor for any suicide.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/108625/more-religious-countries-lower-suicide-rates.aspx

So although, Christianity has it's own problems to address, it appears atheism does also.

I suggest everyone should contribute to ending teen suicide by addressing all issues.

a high majority of suicide , teen or not is contributed by mental illness

 

[BetteTheRed]

But there's also a correlation between being LGBTQ and a higher suicide risk. Clearly, cultural factors other than religion contribute to suicide. However, religion, between the scapegoating of gays by most sects of most religions, and by providing a rationale for homophobia (in Christianity, the biblical "clobber verses"), must shoulder their part of the blame. Excusing the church for its homophobia is analogous to excusing the church for the residential school horror.

 

[blackbelt1961]

But there's also a correlation between being LGBTQ and a higher suicide risk. Clearly, cultural factors other than religion contribute to suicide.

no one contributes to suicide other than the one committing the act period. It was once though that suicide patients were selfish people thinking only of themselves and there inner pain but later studies show that although the illness is called a selfish illness because one does not have the mental ability to see and feel beyond its inner pain (what ever the inner pain may be and usually its not just one thought but many ), the act is contributed to mental illness and its capacity to deal with reality.

However, religion, between the scapegoating of gays by most sects of most religions, and by providing a rationale for homophobia (in Christianity, the biblical "clobber verses"), must shoulder their part of the blame. Excusing the church for its homophobia is analogous to excusing the church for the residential school horror.

then again our faith is not based on the Church now is it? it is based solely on the Son of God, and if Christ stretched out His arms on the Cross for everyone regardless of sin, why does the secular Ignore this aspect of Scripture and only focus on what there inner needs feel and desire are?

 

[Waterfall]

But there's also a correlation between being LGBTQ and a higher suicide risk. Clearly, cultural factors other than religion contribute to suicide. However, religion, between the scapegoating of gays by most sects of most religions, and by providing a rationale for homophobia (in Christianity, the biblical "clobber verses"), must shoulder their part of the blame. Excusing the church for its homophobia is analogous to excusing the church for the residential school horror.

And I agree with this, but yes we do have to address the other cultural contributions as well rather than blaming the local pastor for causing teens to commit suicide with his message. Does removing the homophobic message within some religions stop LGBYQ teen suicides? The sad fact is that in mostly secular countries such as Japan, China and Norway the suicide teen rate is very high. How many of those kids were gay is not always recorded. Young teens even in the US and Canada are becoming increasingly more secularists rather than religious so where do we draw the correlation between the churches and suicide? I am looking for studies to support this, if anyone could point me to one I would truly be thankful to see it. From what I am seeing there really is no one cause for suicide but rather many things. I am not doubting or saying that I disagree with the notion that the churches need to become more tolerant and revisit their theology, but do we know that most of the teens that have committed suicide were even churchgoers? Most of the time I hear that the kids who have committed suicide, were being harassed by other kids at school, or through texts, or facebook, etc.....

I WOULD like to see the church as a sanctuary for those feeling oppressed, the weird thing is that the United Church really doesn't have a lot of young people to influence either way, does it? (despite having some affirming churches). So it may be that the UCC and others, need to go into the schools to announce this?

 

[blackbelt1961]

I am looking for studies to support this, if anyone could point me to one I would truly be thankful to see it.

the problem with the studies in the area is that it deals with the mental processing of the mind, aka the unseen non physical conscious and sub conscious . so depending on who's study you look at , its always tainted with there bias views. One thing that they all agree with is that Mental illness is presents.

From what I am seeing there really is no one cause for suicide but rather many things.

its never one cause, its always a multiple of many issues and the patient always goes back to as early as they can remember things to try an pin point what triggered there suicide thoughts to begin with

 

[Waterfall]

the problem with the studies in the area is that it deals with the mental processing of the mind, aka the unseen non physical conscious and sub conscious . so depending on who's study you look at , its always tainted with there bias views. One thing that they all agree with is that Mental illness is presents.





its never one cause, its always a multiple of many issues and the patient always goes back to as early as they can remember things to try an pin point what triggered there suicide thoughts to begin with

I'm looking more for studies on gay teens specifically.

 

[blackbelt1961]

I'm looking more for studies on gay teens specifically.