Adam & Eve are bad, bad people. Or are they? (do I even need to put the chapter reference here? Genesis 2:4-3:24)

[Mystic]

Jesus does say a few times to "worship the lord your God and serve only him" in Mathew and Luke. In Isaiah God says there is no other God before me, for I am God and there is no one else.

Thomas acclaims Jesus as "my Lord and my God" and Jesus accepts that affirmation of His divinity (John 20:29) and so the disciples worshiped the risen Jesus (Matthew 28:17) as God with His approval

Sunday is also called the lords day.....the same day as those who worshipped the sun god and now they worship the son....

The sun god has nothing to do with it; "the Lord's Day" (Greek: "kyiakon") ,means Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection.

 

[Luce NDs]

Thomas acclaims Jesus as "my Lord and my God" and Jesus accepts that affirmation of His divinity (John 20:29) and so the disciples worshiped the risen Jesus (Matthew 28:17) as God with His approval


The sun god has nothing to do with it; "the Lord's Day" (Greek: "kyiakon") ,means Sunday, the day of Jesus' resurrection.

So much for the concept of a light forming in the mysterious darkness as a metaphor of someone becoming enlightened ... when the tome was opened by someone who could read in depth!

Metaphors are like that ... they abound ... as a spark that arises and rests each cycle ... dippy?

 

[unsafe]

This is my take on this -----

First off ----before the foundation of the world --God had a plan -----He then put that plan into action ----God is Omniscience --He already knew and still knows the outcome of every phase of His plan ------The angels were created first before Adam and Eve ---Lucifer is described in Ezekiel 28 as this verse 14 the anointed cherub who covers and protects ---------and it also depicts that Lucifer's sin happened in a heavenly Eden where he was placed to cover and protect this Garden -----you can read about it here -----

-https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_82.cfm

Is Ezekiel Speaking of Satan or the King of Tyre?​

I say -----When God created Adam and Eve Lucifer was already Satan and was here on the earth ----many believe that Satan just showed up on the earth when Adam and Eve were created by God --

So Adam and Eve were created and placed in the Earthly Garden of Eden with all they needed to live a forever life ---(as spirit don't die )----they lived in prosperity --they lived a -happy --Peaceful --joyest --healthy ---stress free life----there is not one scripture that says their was sickness or disease in the Garden -They were Created in God's likeness ---which means they were created to have a Spirit -as God is a Spiritual Being --they were given a soul -(mind --will and emotions )--which God possesses ---so that they could commune and communicate with God ------They were given free choice which God has also ---

So Adam and Eve showed no distrust in God --and they had no doubts about God ---He was their Creator and they were communing with God ---Adam was made first and he was the responsible person to tend to and watch over the Garden -----Adam was a type of Christ --

read chapter for yourselves to get the Context of it --I am just posting this verse ----https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+5&version=ESV

​

Romans 5:14 ESV​

Peace with God Through Faith​

14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

I say
So God gave His first Creation a Command -and He gives them a Consequence if they disobey this Command ----He told them not to eat of a certain tree in the middle of the Garden that would give them the knowledge of good and evil and if they do they will surely die - ---------He was testing their Faith in their obedience to His command -----to obey him fully -----

Now God is Omniscience -so God already knew they would fail the test ------But they didn't know they would fail -----they had no reason not to trust God and obey Him -----Adam and Eve had no bad influences around them --they were living in a paradise with all they needed to live and walking with God and His knowledge ------now the Garden was full of fruit trees and the Tree of Life was also in the Garden -----which they could have eaten from -----

So now we have Adam and Eve with a choice to obey or disobey this command which is their free choice that God allowed them to have when He made them in His likeness -----so without any bad influence to Temp them to disobey they would certainly obey their Creator -----and there would be no Test as to obedience or disobedience ----- so in enters Satan who has permission to Temp His Creation by God Himself -----Satan can do nothing without God's approval -Folks------i

So Satan comes in disguise --- as a snake --- he needs to cast doubt on God's command and make it seem like God is holding something back from Eve and he does that by posing a Question ----Surely you won't die ? if you eat the fruit -And Saying ------you will be like gods knowing good and evil Satan says to Eve ====and he knows who to tempt first Eve ---he subverted God's order as Adam was formed first ---but he deceived Eve first -----and Eve went to Adam and Adam took the bait -and ate the fruit -----so the Snake did a good job of casting Doubt and making it seem that God didn't want them to have the knowledge He had -----

This is still today what Satan does to us today -----His only job is to keep us away from God ---and His word -----by creating doubt and fear in our minds about God and His word ----


So Adam was the type of Christ and was the leader in this Test ----Adam could have refused the Temptation ----he made a BAD CHOICE Folks-----and as God Promised ---they both Died ---their inner Spirit Man changed from a Spiritual Spirit to a Human Spirit ----They disconnected themselves from God who is a Spirit being -----Adam committed Treason Folks --which is the action of betraying someone -----

So God Created them ---set them up for life with all they needed and they betrayed their Creator -----and they reaped what they sowed themselves ----Satan didn't make them betray --God didn't make them betray ---they made a Free Choice to betray their Creator -----Adam could have saved the Day ---but he took the Bait and made a Bad Choice all by Himself ----

So now they become of the aware of their nakedness --so the Spiritual Veil that protected them from seeing their worldly nakedness has been removed and now we have worldly Emotions and Feelings coming into play ------Fear of being caught is in place as they hid from God ---Shame and Guilt are now taking hold as the try and hide their nakedness and feelings of betrayal by using the BLAME GAME -----Eve blames Satan ----Adam blames Eve and then he blames God-- Humans now don't want to take the responsibility for their own actions ------ their peace --joy ---happiness ---health --and stress free life were now gone -----The Spiritual Veil was completely OFF the whole earth -----It wasn't just Adam and Eve that Fell ----it was the whole earth ----soil --trees --plants -all animals --all creeping things -----all fish in the sea --all fell -----sickness and disease became present to all living things -----God made all things in the Garden without spot or blemish -----

So God knew that they would fail the Temptation test ------so before God Formed this earth He had a plan already in place which was His bigger picture of what was going to happen after His Creation failed Him -----He would Send His Son to fix it all -------and He would eventually destroy this fallen planet and replace it with a new one for all who accept His Son which gives people the chance--Free Will To Choose-- to be adapted back into God's Spiritual Family where peace and harmony will again reign -----

Some of God's Plan has happened and some of it has not happened yet ----but I personally believe the Final Chapters of God's Plan Will come to pass ----just as He says in His word --

Adam created the worldly veil that blinded us to Understand God who is Spiritual----and Jesus Tore that Veil and made it possible for the people who choose to want to-- can now have that Spiritual Blindness removed to again understand God who is Spiritual by and through The Holy Spirit who resides in the Person who receives Jesus in their heart ------

 

[unsafe]

We will see here in this Scripture that God had a plan before He Created the World ------to send His Son Jesus Christ to correct what His first Creation Adam and Eve would mess up for the rest of Humanity -----

God foreknew that Adam and Eve would not have the ability to withstand the craftiness of the Temptation of the Devil -----

So He prepared another way before He spoke this world into existence --

Read the whole Chapter yourselves to get the Context ---I am just posting this part ------

Ephesians 1 GNTEphesians - - Bible Gateway 1 GNT

Spiritual Blessings in Christ​

​3 Let us give thanks to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! For in our union with Christ he has blessed us by giving us every spiritual blessing in the heavenly world.

4 Even before the world was made, God had already chosen us to be his through our union with Christ, so that we would be holy and without fault before him.Because of his love

5 God[b] had already decided that through Jesus Christ he would make us his children—this was his pleasure and purpose.

6 Let us praise God for his glorious grace, for the free gift he gave us in his dear Son!

7 For by the blood of Christ[c] we are set free, that is, our sins are forgiven. How great is the grace of God, 8 which he gave to us in such large measure!In all his wisdom and insight

9 God did what he had purposed, and made known to us the secret plan he had already decided to complete by means of Christ.

 

[jimkenney12]

Time for me to be a bit disruptive. I consider the Gospel of John to be the least reliable gospel regarding what Jesus said or did. At the same time, it is the most sophisticated gospel in terms of the theology of the community of followers of the Way of the latter part of the first century.

Christian theology sees the declaration by God in this story that the serpent will strike the heel of Eve's descendant and that descendent shall crush the head of the serpent as referring to Jesus, the crucifixion, and the resurrection. The author of the Gospel of John chose to give words to Jesus that linked the crucifixion to the brass serpent on the pole. This link fits with other theology about Jesus.

The Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels seems quite different from the Jesus of John's Gospel. The first Jesus fairly consistently points to God

 

[Luce NDs]

Out of the naivete ... a flash of insight ... like a spark in the mysterious darkness followed by many ... blindly?

And right off the edge that may sharpen them up ... darkness ... an attribute of closed humanity?

 

[BetteTheRed]

If we rid ourselves of the snake in this story, is it any clearer? This muddying that fundamentalists do, turns our "One God" into the trinity thing, plus, Satan, plus demons, plus angels, which goes beyond sounding polytheistic.

I'm totally comfortable with Jesus as a great prophet/teacher/rabbi, as a spirit of wisdom still in the world. The Jesus as God concept takes me farther from our Jewish roots than I'm comfortable with. Islam feels about the same about Jesus; great prophet, perfect mother Mary, etc., but heretical in violating the monotheistic spirit.

Christianity feels stretched and changed by its need to cater to empire, Roman, originally, but always to "authority". Always to male. We resist two spirits. We resist the Spirit as The Goddess. We resist the call to resistance. To the oppressor of the day. To systemic injustice.

This is a true story, and I could look up the date if I had to. I once heard the famous Indigenous playwright/musician/opera composer Tomson Highway say in a lecture, that when indigenous people first met colonizers that they couldn't figure out what Mr. God had done to Mrs. God. Had he murdered her?

 

[Luce NDs]

Imagine the snake as a slick escape artist ... thus the script about forgetting any previous learnings and wisdom ... opportunities as it slides away!

Only wee decide what is good or bad ... and power tends to sway us away from the way of the Y's .. a dark game ... Gammas? Pray for rest ... especially from what is demanded in irrationally of excess reporting of evil as it sickens life ...

Yet polity survives ... especially in extremes and means to ends! Insert rest point ... period? Punctual ... as Ci Toul-ng! Literary device ... ability to read deeply ...

Aye there's more that meet I where I am in the past --- Orwell! We move on ... Moor Tall ... up there as in AD or suspended in the mystical tree of life ... not to be observed until out of it ... insane escape?

The base of myths of great intrigue ...

 

[Mendalla]

turns our "One God" into the trinity thing

To be fair and clear, the Trinity is not "fundamentalist", it is foundational to mainstream Christianity for most of its history, save some unitarian sparks here and there, some of which were burned as heretics.

And, frankly, you can have Satan, angels, and demons without being polytheistic. Even in polytheistic religions, you have supernatural beings who are not worshipped as deities (e.g. nymphs and satyrs in Classical Greece). There are times when Christianity feels like it is going in a dualist direction, God vs. Satan, but that's still still a different beast from classical polytheism. It puts it closest to Zoroastrianism (Ahura Mazda vs. Ahriman).

 

[Luce NDs]

To be fair and clear, the Trinity is not "fundamentalist", it is foundational to mainstream Christianity for most of its history, save some unitarian sparks here and there, some of which were burned as heretics.

And, frankly, you can have Satan, angels, and demons without being polytheistic. Even in polytheistic religions, you have supernatural beings who are not worshipped as deities (e.g. nymphs and satyrs in Classical Greece). There are times when Christianity feels like it is going in a dualist direction, God vs. Satan, but that's still still a different beast from classical polytheism. It puts it closest to Zoroastrianism (Ahura Mazda vs. Ahriman).

If one gathered something from this multitiered icon ... would it unitize? Only in that dark place between the ears ... occipital range ...

 

[Redbaron]

I wonder if the discussion of the serpent isn't a distraction to the plotline. To me, the important part is where Adam and Eve play hide-and-seek with God, where they confess what they've done, and where the first round of pass-the-buck happens. Adam says 'Eve started it!' and Eve in turn says 'The serpent made me do it!' A seeming refusal to take responsibility for the mess they've managed to make for themselves.

 

[Luce NDs]

I wonder if the discussion of the serpent isn't a distraction to the plotline. To me, the important part is where Adam and Eve play hide-and-seek with God, where they confess what they've done, and where the first round of pass-the-buck happens. Adam says 'Eve started it!' and Eve in turn says 'The serpent made me do it!' A seeming refusal to take responsibility for the mess they've managed to make for themselves.

Imagine such creations without information, intelligence and knowledge to process the incident into a remnant of wisdom!

Then if the physical gods declare knowledge and wisdom evil (philosophy) are we left oblivious to what the extremes of power and positives are up to as they believe they can?

Thus the need for obscurity and hidden matter in the magical forest ... sublime myths?

Some grand scholars of business and economy perceive this ... many lose such concepts when in view of piled wealth ... accrued sense!

Life is rough to understand when psyche and Sophie are denied and thus exist only in essence ... mere whims of the invisible sol!

Some prescient attribute may be required ... and then many would instantly exclude such process! May lead into the story of the Aquit Aine Progression and authorities would inhibit the thought ... understanding of ancient and alien tongues is helpful ... even the interpretation of word icons ... signs and symbols ...

For people impressed that knowledge and wisdom are evil ... they wouldn't go there. Of course there are extremes on the other side ... thus the Judean Punch line in the great code ... there maybe Moor in another thread, maybe not! Sometimes the threads are frayed and disassociated! Antisocialism ... for the purpose of philosophical restart of chaotic mentalities? The gods found emotional contend a grand relaxation syndrome ... overcoming the stress of life just because they can ... thus worse crewed ...

Then again, there worsted ...

 

[Mendalla]

I wonder if the discussion of the serpent isn't a distraction to the plotline. To me, the important part is where Adam and Eve play hide-and-seek with God, where they confess what they've done, and where the first round of pass-the-buck happens. Adam says 'Eve started it!' and Eve in turn says 'The serpent made me do it!' A seeming refusal to take responsibility for the mess they've managed to make for themselves.

That's a good point and an aspect of the story that doesn't get commented on enough. In a world where buck-passing is a common practice in many areas, perhaps it is an aspect that needs to be talked about more.

 

[unsafe]

God will use whoever He wants to bring about His end Plan -----Satan pays an important part in His Plan right to the end ------without Satan being able to tempt us there would be no free choice to be had -----and as we see in the Garden even though Adam and Eve are made in God's image --their Spirit and Soul is housed in a body made of earthly ground and they have not the ability to resist Satan's crafty ways of placing doubt and fear in their minds ------

All humans today because of Adam's free will --bad --choice are born with Corrupted Seed ------ The Male produces the bad seed folks ------that is why Jesus was born of a Woman without the Male corrupted Seed -----The Spoken word of God --Rhema word ----which is uncorruptible seed --it is Holy seed ----and this is what Mary was impregnated with ------

Greek word for Seed -----
Strong's #4690: sperma (pronounced sper'-mah)

from 4687; something sown, i.e. seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication, offspring; specially, a remnant (figuratively, as if kept over for planting):--issue, seed.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Adam was the ultimate overseer and it is through Adams disobedience that everything Fell ----Eve was deceived --Adam put the nail in the coffin by his Choice to disobey God

The Tree of Life was available for them but they made a bad choice to avoid that tree -------Satan would not been in the picture if they had of eaten the fruit from that tree -------the Tree of Life would have enhanced and sustained their physical life for all of humanity ------

 

[Redbaron]

it is through Adams disobedience that everything Fell ----Eve was deceived

As I recall the story, Eve ate first, then gave some of the fruit to Adam. Shouldn't it read, then, through Eve's disobedience?

 

[GordW]

As I recall the story, Eve ate first, then gave some of the fruit to Adam. Shouldn't it read, then, through Eve's disobedience?

THere were so many flaws in the logic of that post I give you kudos for pulling only one out to comment on

 

[unsafe]

Rredbaron -----you said -----As I recall the story, Eve ate first, then gave some of the fruit to Adam. Shouldn't it read, then, through Eve's disobedience?

Well that could be it in your world ---But Adam was the type of Christ ---not Eve and God said to Adam not Eve

15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.

Eve was created as a helper ---not the overseer -----

But you can believe what you want to ---that is your choice -----

 

[Redbaron]

Read this passage carefully, please. (Genesis 3:1-13, NRSV)

3 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other wild animal that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God say, ‘You shall not eat from any tree in the garden’?” 2 The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden; 3 but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the middle of the garden, nor shall you touch it, or you shall die.’” 4 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not die; 5 for God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God,[a] knowing good and evil.” 6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate; and she also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate. 7 Then the eyes of both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together and made loincloths for themselves.


8 They heard the sound of the Lord God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?” 10 He said, “I heard the sound of you in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.” 11 He said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree of which I commanded you not to eat?” 12 The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit from the tree, and I ate.” 13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this that you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent tricked me, and I ate.”

Note carefully EVE ATE FIRST. Then the buck was passed willy nilly. There is NO MENTION of Adam being a type of Christ until Paul, writing centuries later, used it as an example. As the thought only appeared in Paul's much, much later writings, the concept has no part of the creation story as it stands here. No matter how desperately you try to misinterpret, or read later interpretations into an earlier text, or twist the words of Scripture, the text stands as it stands.

​

 

[unsafe]

Redbaron ----Adam was a type of Christ Not Eve --so get over it ---accept it ----

 

[Redbaron]

Who says Adam is a type of Christ?