A bias against wealth?

[Pinga]

You can't discuss wealth without discussing power. The two go together. Those with enough wealth have the power to make us poor. And they do it.

They also have the power to create jobs , decent-paying jobs.

I am considering going from independent consultant, to service provider. If I move to service provider, I will be hiring folks, employing co-op students, and providing companies with a needed service. I will be expanding knowledge, as well in a space that desperately needs more trained staff. The question is: do i want the hassle.

I feel guilty for NOT spinning up this company, as I know the ways it will help people, including ex-workmates who would join me.

So.....give off with the power to make you poor, and recognize that there are good people who create jobs by investing their funds, seeing need, developing a product.

 

[Luce NDs]

They also have the power to create jobs , decent-paying jobs.

I am considering going from independent consultant, to service provider. If I move to service provider, I will be hiring folks, employing co-op students, and providing companies with a needed service. I will be expanding knowledge, as well in a space that desperately needs more trained staff. The question is: do i want the hassle.

I feel guilty for NOT spinning up this company, as I know the ways it will help people, including ex-workmates who would join me.

So.....give off with the power to make you poor, and recognize that there are good people who create jobs by investing their funds, seeing need, developing a product.

Must one wobble and weave in order to create the mesh of human wisdom? --- from the Jack ard loam ...

Some ups and downs to be realized in reality and mysts ... foggy nature of Syne ....

 

[Inukshuk]

You don't work any harder than the homeless person trying to survive.

And this is so painfully obvious to see, especially during our Canadian winters.

 

[Waterfall]

And this is so painfully obvious to see, especially during our Canadian winters.

Although the summer heat causes more deaths within the homeless population than the cold weather for some reason.

 

[Waterfall]

Problem is whenever this discussion comes up, those with money want to justify their rights to have more rather than volunteer a solution for those who don't. Perhaps our giving needs to be made mandatory through laws in order that the poor and destitute are taken care of because let's face it, we usually only donate in crisis and not on a continuous basis.

 

[Mendalla]

Problem is whenever this discussion comes up, those with money want to justify their rights to have more rather than volunteer a solution for those who don't. Perhaps our giving needs to be made mandatory through laws in order that the poor and destitute are taken care of because let's face it, we usually only donate in crisis and not on a continuous basis.

It already is mandatory. It's called paying taxes. And I'm all for paying taxes if the money is really helping people but between mismanagement and greed in government, I'm not convinced it's helping as much as it could.

And the topic wasn't about how we help the poor, it's about how we discriminate against the wealthy. Many of those defending wealth have discussed our solutions to poverty in other threads. I even discussed negative income tax (a form of guaranteed basic income, something that I support) in this thread. It's not the topic here, though.

I also discussed the work done by people with great wealth to help make the world better. Gates fighting disease, a major source of poverty and social disorder, in Africa or the Zuckerbergs working to improve health care is wealthy people volunteering solutions. In fact, Gates does a better job of it than most governments and NGOs do. Taxing the hell out of them puts the government in charge and I, frankly, trust Gates managing the programs more than I do the governments. Sad, but true.

 

[Waterfall]

It already is mandatory. It's called paying taxes. And I'm all for paying taxes if the money is really helping people but between mismanagement and greed in government, I'm not convinced it's helping as much as it could.

And the topic wasn't about how we help the poor, it's about how we discriminate against the wealthy. Many of those defending wealth have discussed our solutions to poverty in other threads. I even discussed negative income tax (a form of guaranteed basic income, something that I support) in this thread. It's not the topic here, though.

I also discussed the work done by people with great wealth to help make the world better. Gates fighting disease, a major source of poverty and social disorder, in Africa or the Zuckerbergs working to improve health care is wealthy people volunteering solutions. In fact, Gates does a better job of it than most governments and NGOs do. Taxing the hell out of them puts the government in charge and I, frankly, trust Gates managing the programs more than I do the governments. Sad, but true.

Taxes includes everything under the sun, I was thinking a specific tax that targets poverty only. The more you have the more you should give. Living in Atawapiskat should not be that hard!

 

[Mendalla]

I was thinking a specific tax that targets poverty only.

A properly designed tax system (which we don't have, BTW) shouldn't require such a thing. Just creates more complexity in a tax system that's already too complex. Set up the program and pay it out of general revenues, raising taxes if needed to pay for it.

The more you have the more you should give.

That's how the system is supposed to work now. The marginal rate on incomes over $200K is much higher than on those below $45K (33% vs. 15% on general income , but it varies for income like capital gains and dividends that are given preferential treatment). The wealthy pay proportionately less only because they can leverage a lot more deductions, credits, and shelters. So if you want to get more money out of the rich, review and cut/change some of deductions, credits and shelters that they use to protect their money from CRA (e.g. the aforementioned preferential treatment given capital gains and dividends). Only if that doesn't get enough should you be touching tax rates or creating dedicated taxes (which, lets face it, usually end up in general revenues sooner or later anyhow, witness the carbon tax in Ontario).

I'd also raise corporate taxes a bit (we are well below almost every other OECD country as it is so can afford a small increase) and use that to raise the basic personal exemption for individuals so people on low incomes pay less income tax (which will do them far more good than raising taxes at the other end will).

 

[Mendalla]

Reference for marginal tax rates for the 2016 tax year: http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/canada.htm

 

[Graeme Decarie]

The wealthy create jobs - to make more money for themselves. They don't do to make us wealthy. The pay the least they can get away with. They also use jobs to create poverty - as in most of Africa and South America.
In 1900, Rockefeller became a man of stunning wealth. His employees did not. The record is that the rich make us poor - not rich.

But why are we weeping for the hardships of the wealthy in the first place?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Not sure where you see the contradiction. Security obviously has to do with having money. If you have money, you have choices. Therefore, you have power. For example, buying power determines the market. This can be influenced somewhat by the consumer who is not wealthy ( i.e. If as result of mad cow disease people suddenly tend to buy organic meat)- but for that, you still need to have the finances to buy alternatives.
If you look at wealthy western countries and poor third world countries, there is another example of wealth and power. Also, of course, within third world countries' societies.

It was the comment that only billionaires have any power, that I disagreed with. My argument is that financial security/ stability does give power - but that it is taken for granted.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

i think the idea behind this calculation is to include the debt of people- and people today are much more in debt than ever before.

Nobody used the comfort calculator I posted earlier. It does not calculate your net worth and what "class" one is, but it assesses how much one needs to live comfortably. My guess is nobody's commenting because they don't want to justify the excess.

 

[ChemGal]

Nobody used the comfort calculator I posted earlier. It does not calculate your net worth and what "class" one is, but it assesses how much one needs to live comfortably. My guess is nobody's commenting because they don't want to justify the excess.

I don't understand how that works as it states special needs but I don't see any listed there.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

TV isn't really a need at all, but it's there too.

 

[Graeme Decarie]

being able to pay for you needs is nice. But it isn't power. Great wealth means the power to buy governments, to shape legislation to favour you, to determine how others will live, to decide who we will go to war with......

 

[Luce NDs]

Does the demos paradigm have more collective power than the rich? Yes, but they can't think that way when consumed with fear and anger (the emotional base where they are confined)!

Yes sometimes they slowly arise ... dissonance unseen as in Eris ... few understand the flight ... all afloat in the myth!

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

being able to pay for you needs is nice. But it isn't power. Great wealth means the power to buy governments, to shape legislation to favour you, to determine how others will live, to decide who we will go to war with......

I disagree. It is power, of a different kind. What you are talking about is almost diabolical power - and the people hungry for it.

Not having money for basic needs can definately be a powerless existence. But people power, is power - and it is stronger when stable.

 

[ChemGal]

TV isn't really a need at all, but it's there too.

Huh?

 

[Graeme Decarie]

to be power, it has to be exerted on someone or something. I suppose that having adequate income has the power to keep one housed and fed. But it does not provide power to influence others, and certainly not to influence governments.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Collectively it does, Graeme. And without the worry of homelessness at the same time. And when one is housed and fed they tend to exert power over those who are not.