89 chapter project: Matthew

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paradox3 said:
Reflection: Matthew 23:1-39

Why does Jesus say He will send prophets, sages and scribes whom the Pharisees will kill & crucify? Why does He say the Pharisees will be responsible for all the righteous blood shed on earth? Why will all this come upon the present generation?

A confusing passage.

Agreeing with @Redbaron we have an angry Jesus here.
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Some of us see in Jesus the indignation of all the critics of power presented in the Hebrew prophetic narratives. I long for the day in which professed followers of Jesus turn aside from the seductions of power to embrace the way of resistance. My own experience makes it clear that this turning will have costly consequences.



 
Matthew 23:5-7

In public, the Pharisees and scribes acted righteously.

God had told the Jews that they should bind God's words for a sign upon the hand and as frontlets between the eyes. This the Jewish leaders did literally. They placed large phylacteries in boxes, one of which they fastened to their forehead, the other to their left arm.

The Pharisees exaggerated in the borders and tassels on their garments too, which they wore to remind them of God. They fastened them with blue ribbons, blue being God's symbolical colour. Verses from the Law were woven into these ribbons. The scribes and Pharisees wanted to show off their love for God's Law.

Similarly, they loved the highest seat and the place of honor at banquets. They always chose the seat reserved for the elders in the synagogue. They loved the title of teacher when the people called them Rabbi.
 
In Matthew 23:8-12, Christ tells his missionaries that they should not seek vain glory.

Titles become a problem if they are to mark distinction and rank in the Church. There are no superior Christians before Christ. He's the only King. His missionaries are all equal, siblings on the same level.

The measure of greatness before Christ is humility of service. God sccounts as great they that serve from their faith.

Anyone that tries to be great will be placed low. They may even forfeit their Christianity.

Meanwhile, God will exalt the truly humble, they that only have service in mind.
 
What is emotional (spirited) Wiki'd Ness in high places? Aaron head edNess in the dark ... Edeness? The source swamp ....

Jesus retreated ... recess in humble form! Dump Lingue ... like duffy, fruitcake? One has to fit in ...
 
blackbelt1961 said:
JAE
Your batting 100 :p
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Not much of a compliment if you understand baseball jargon.

Batting .100 or 100 is one hit in ten tries. It is generally the kind of hitting one does not consider successful.

Batting 1.000 or 1000 is ten hits in ten tries. It is flawless hitting and nobody in the major leagues has that kind of skill. In fact, Ted Williams is considered the best hitter in all of baseball ever and his career batting average was .344 or 344. A little better than 3 hits in 10 tries.

Three times he managed to break .400 or 400.

I get your intent.
 
Jae said:
In Matthew 23:8-12, Christ tells his missionaries that they should not seek vain glory.

Titles become a problem if they are to mark distinction and rank in the Church. There are no superior Christians before Christ. He's the only King. His missionaries are all equal, siblings on the same level.

The measure of greatness before Christ is humility of service. God sccounts as great they that serve from their faith.

Anyone that tries to be great will be placed low. They may even forfeit their Christianity.

Meanwhile, God will exalt the truly humble, they that only have service in mind.
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Of course Jesus never contradicted himself according to the gospels.:rolleyes: Jesus being so humble and all himself.:whistle:
 
Jae said:
Anyone that tries to be great will be placed low.
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This humility may, in fact, be one of Jesus' toughest teachings for anyone to follow. Humanity has, since long before Jesus came along, tended to develop pecking orders and hierarchies. I mean, he says right in Matt 23:9, "9 And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven." But what title is given priests in the oldest Christian traditions?

OTOH, without any social structure, of which titles are a part, you end up with a kind of anarchic community that really isn't going to sustain or grow beyond a certain, very small, size. Perhaps that's ultimately a good thing, but I doubt Christianity as we know it would exist without the structure that the Church brought to it. It would have splintered even earlier and maybe even to the point where there was no "Christianity" beyond scattered house churches and communities. A cult rather than a religion.

So, how do you have a sustainable community structure without hierarchy? How do you encourage humility while still having some kind of order? It's been tried many times politically and socially without much success. The US got rid of hereditary power only to have elected power become just as hierarchical in its own way. In the end, those who want greatness find a way to put themselves on top, don't they? And if no one wants to be on top, to be the one in charge, then nothing gets done, or so it seems to me. Servant leadership gets talked about a lot, but somehow the leader still has more privilege and power than the follower even in many organizations that profess it.
 
I checked The Five Gospels which is my go to book for parts of the Gospels that don't sound like Jesus to me. As I expected (with a few exceptions that were pink) the scholars designated almost all this entire chapter either grey or black, indicating that in their opinion Jesus probably didn't say that but it was the product of the early church after the division in Judaism that happened after the destruction of the Temple around 70 A.D.
This doesn't mean that this chapter has no value. It means that we have to look at it in a different way.
 
Mendalla said:
This humility may, in fact, be one of Jesus' toughest teachings for anyone to follow. Humanity has, since long before Jesus came along, tended to develop pecking orders and hierarchies. I mean, he says right in Matt 23:9, "9 And call no one your father on earth, for you have one Father—the one in heaven." But what title is given priests in the oldest Christian traditions?

OTOH, without any social structure, of which titles are a part, you end up with a kind of anarchic community that really isn't going to sustain or grow beyond a certain, very small, size. Perhaps that's ultimately a good thing, but I doubt Christianity as we know it would exist without the structure that the Church brought to it. It would have splintered even earlier and maybe even to the point where there was no "Christianity" beyond scattered house churches and communities. A cult rather than a religion.

So, how do you have a sustainable community structure without hierarchy? How do you encourage humility while still having some kind of order? It's been tried many times politically and socially without much success. The US got rid of hereditary power only to have elected power become just as hierarchical in its own way. In the end, those who want greatness find a way to put themselves on top, don't they? And if no one wants to be on top, to be the one in charge, then nothing gets done, or so it seems to me. Servant leadership gets talked about a lot, but somehow the leader still has more privilege and power than the follower even in many organizations that profess it.
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Good observations Mendalla. I think true servant leadership is the ideal. I think of Jesus himself as such a servant leader. It's a concept that is often abused - or is often claimed while not actually being in place, but I can't imagine a better model.
 
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unsafe said:
Jae ------the word Christian was a man made term -------The Gentiles used it to mock the people who had been Baptised in the Holy Spirit --Paul kept the name and applied it to those who were Baptised in the Holy Spirit -----

The word Christian in my view shouldn't have ever been kept -----the word Christian has lost its real meaning today and is abused and misused -----Jesus in His Human form never used the word Christian in my Bible ------He said Follow my way ------

SO for me personally ----if a person has not received Jesus as their Lord and Saviour which baptises us in the Holy Spirit who dwells in us then they are not a Christian as it was meant to be known to be ------Christ--ian

Water Baptism either by a Baby's standard or an Adult standard will not take away anyone's sins and it can not save you -----so water baptism will not make you be called a True Christian -----


A True Christian has a personal relationship with Christ who dwells in them --------Christianity in my view is not a Religion --it is a personal relationship with God in us ------


Why anyone would want to call themselves a Christian without Christ indwelling in them is beyond me -------they are misusing and abusing the word Christ which means the Anointed One and the Anointed One only dwells in us when we accept God's Grace offer of Salvation by and through the right kind of Faith -----not all Faith saves ---there is Saving Grace which comes through Saving Faith ---


This is my view on this
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Thank you for sharing your view with me unsafe.

My own belief is that God washed my sins away and made me a true Christian when I was baptized as an infant. It was then, I hold, that God began God's relationship with me. I trust in Christ's saving power.
 
Hi,
Jae said:
I think true servant leadership is the ideal. I think of Jesus himself as such a servant leader.
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This is the hope living in those of us who follow in this way. Each of us, like Stephen serving at table, ready to testify and suffer the cost when the call comes.

Matthew has Jesus contrasting the way of God with the way of the world. He is not present in the way of power expressed as pride, privilege or prestige. Values which Thomas Hobbes notices as signs of worth and honour. Values deep rooted in our social economy. The rich are honoured and the poor despised.

My concern is not with the meaning of Matthew. It is with the voice of the spirit as I read Matthew. What is God saying to me as I engage the text?

George
 
Seeler said:
I checked The Five Gospels which is my go to book for parts of the Gospels that don't sound like Jesus to me. As I expected (with a few exceptions that were pink) the scholars designated almost all this entire chapter either grey or black, indicating that in their opinion Jesus probably didn't say that but it was the product of the early church after the division in Judaism that happened after the destruction of the Temple around 70 A.D.
This doesn't mean that this chapter has no value. It means that we have to look at it in a different way.
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Thanks Seeler for adding this perspective. I have a copy of The Five Gospels on my bookshelf but I seldom consult it. I just find it so very dry to read. :(
 
Seeler said:
I checked The Five Gospels which is my go to book for parts of the Gospels that don't sound like Jesus to me. As I expected (with a few exceptions that were pink) the scholars designated almost all this entire chapter either grey or black, indicating that in their opinion Jesus probably didn't say that but it was the product of the early church after the division in Judaism that happened after the destruction of the Temple around 70 A.D.
This doesn't mean that this chapter has no value. It means that we have to look at it in a different way.
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Are. You. f***ing. Kidding. Me.
 
Sorry, chansen, what are you asking?

Have you ever had a lesson/class with a rabbi on a small piece of Torah? It's fascinating.

I like the 5 gospels for two reasons: i) to check on their opinion of the authenticity of the words (and the accompanying logic behind it), and ii) because it's a really plain clear translation.
 
It's the "Jesus doesn't sound like we want him to be, so let's look for alternate translations or explanations so we don't have to think less of him" approach.

This is not done, I assume, when people nod approvingly at the attributed words of Jesus. Only when Jesus is being an a**hole, do Christians go looking for excuses.
 
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