89 chapter project: Matthew

[chansen]

You do have a way with words.

Is that another way of saying I'm not wrong? That, with no other information, if you had to be trapped in an elevator with either a Born Again or a Satanist, you'd find the Satanist the lesser of two evils?

 

[Jaebius]

Being dead in spirit does not mean being dead completely.

It means our spirit is dis connected to the Creator because of sin, but even though we are disconnected we still have the ability to read to hear the testimonies to listen to other people and say can this be possible can this be true and then the Holy Spirit comes says yes it is true and here I am and we come alive to God

The dead can read and hear and listen? Well, I'll be gum. I respect your belief blackbelt, and I know it's one which most evangelicals share. It isn't, however, my perspective. I believe that being spiritually dead means being spiritually dead and that the only reason anyone gets saved is because God rescues the helpless.

 

[Jaebius]

Y'know, John Wesley answered that very question 250 or so years ago. You might want to look him up and study what he had to say. In the meantime, back to Matthew's gospel?

Well... he thought he'd answered it. Many agree with his answer, many do not.

 

[chansen]

We're talking in circles. My question to you remains - if people start out dead, how can they turn? They are dead. Note: not sick, not maimed, not bruised; dead.

Being dead in spirit does not mean being dead completely.

It means our spirit is dis connected to the Creator because of sin, but even though we are disconnected we still have the ability to read to hear the testimonies to listen to other people and say can this be possible can this be true and then the Holy Spirit comes says yes it is true and here I am and we become alive to God

This conversation is just too much.

 

[Jaebius]

Pretty much with you so far, Jae.

What is your reference for this? It doesn't seem to come from Matthew 20.

My reference for falling away? It stems from here in this case, "...and the first the last;" - Matthew 20:16b (WYC).

 

[blackbelt1961]

The dead can read and hear and listen? Well, I'll be gum. I respect your belief blackbelt, and I know it's one which most evangelicals share. It isn't, however, my perspective. I believe that being spiritually dead means being spiritually dead and that the only reason anyone gets saved is because God rescues the helpless.

Jae all the saints in the Old Testament were spiritually dead, Nicodemus was spiritually dead, Jesus's followers were spiritually dead, yet they all had a certain measure of belief.

Scripture says we all have God's laws in our hearts even though we don't believe in God in our conscience mind we know between right and wrong how can that be if we are spiritually dead , sorry to say I cannot see your view there's no biblical basis to it

My personal experience I went looking for God I had a Measure of Faith but I wasn't sure if God really existed but I had enough Faith to go looking it took me three months before my rebirth experience and it wasn't in the church it was in my own home in my bedroom how was it that being spiritually dead myself I was able to search and search and search till I found him because thats what scripture says Those Who search for me with all their hearts will find me

 

[Jaebius]

...sorry to say I cannot see your view there's no biblical basis to it.

Hmm... "For the wages of sin is death; the grace of God is everlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23 (WYC).

"For that he was dead to sin, he was dead once; but that he liveth, he liveth to God." - Romans 6:10 (WYC).

 

[Jaebius]

My personal experience I went looking for God I had a Measure of Faith but I wasn't sure if God really existed but I had enough Faith to go looking it took me three months before my rebirth experience and it wasn't in the church it was in my own home in my bedroom how was it that being spiritually dead myself I was able to search and search and search till I found him because thats what scripture says Those Who search for me with all their hearts will find me

My personal experience - I did not go looking for God. I never pondered God's existence. I was baptized as an infant in a United Church in Fredericton, New Brunswick. I believe it was then that God washed my sins away - that God then gave me a new, righteous identity in Christ.

You ask how, if you were spiritually dead, you could search for God. In my mind, this is not the best question. A better one would be - how was God working in your life even during the time you were spiritually dead. God works through God's chosen means - word and sacrament.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Hmm... "For the wages of sin is death; the grace of God is everlasting life in Christ Jesus our Lord." - Romans 6:23 (WYC).

"For that he was dead to sin, he was dead once; but that he liveth, he liveth to God." - Romans 6:10 (WYC).

Which has nothing to do with what I had mentioned above that even though we're spiritually dead we still can look for God we still have the measure of God in our hearts

But regardless you see it one way I see it another way doesn't really matter the point is that you and I are on right path together and I'm content with that.

Any how , thanks for the conversation, I'm off to bed, goodnight Jae

 

[Jaebius]

Which has nothing to do with what I had mentioned above that even though we're spiritually dead we still can look for God we still have the measure of God in our hearts

Dead means dead as I see it blackbelt. Seems to me that dead to you means maimed - hurt but still with some life in you.

But regardless you see it one way I see it another way doesn't really matter the point is that were on right path together and I'm content with that

Amen.

 

[chansen]

Dead means dead as I see it blackbelt. Seems to me that dead to you means maimed - hurt but still with some life in you.

Miracle Max would like a word with you. There is a difference between "spiritually dead" and "spiritually *mostly* dead".

Also, I was in Chapters yesterday and the cover of this book made me laugh:

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Matthew 21: 1 - 46

1. The entry of Jesus into Jerusalem. In fulfillment of prophecy, the King comes riding on a donkey and a colt. Garments and branches are spread on the road by very great multitudes. The crowds cry out Hosanna!

2. Jesus goes into the temple and drives out those buying and selling. He overturns the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sell doves. The blind and lame come to the temple for healing. Children cry out Hosanna! The chief priests and scribes are indignant.

3. Jesus sees a fig tree with only leaves. He curses it and it withers away.

4. Jesus tells the disciples if they have faith they will be able to do what he did to the fig tree and be able to move mountains into the sea. "And all things, whatever you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (21:22 NKJ)

5. The chief priests and elders challenge Jesus' authority. He asks them to consider the baptism of John. Did it come from heaven or from men? They are unwilling to answer so Jesus does not reply to the question about his own authority.

6. The parable of the two sons. Two sons are asked to work in their father's vineyard. The first refuses but later regrets this and goes to work. The second agrees but does not go. Jesus draws further parallels to the story of John who was not accepted when he came in righteousness. But prostitutes and tax collectors believed in him.

7. The parable of the wicked vinedressers. A landowner leases out his vineyard. At vintage time, he sends servants to harvest the fruit but they are killed by the vinedressers. Later he sends his son, and he too is killed. What will the owner do when he comes home? He will destroy the wicked ones and lease the vineyard to those who will return the fruits in their seasons.

When the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they saw that Jesus was speaking of them. They sought to lay hands on Him but feared the multitudes who took Jesus for a prophet.

 

[Luce NDs]

And ?

A sinners prayer is just a reflection of one's humble heart , change the wording who cares

There is no such thing as a humble heart ... at that point it converts and gets wiser than wild things in the Shadow persona ... the dark period of the hart when it stops to recollect? Then it is stuffed and skewered ...

Keep moving dear harts ... especially if you're lonely!

 

[Luce NDs]

The emotionally dead know to be silent about wisdom ... emotional people don't like intelligence ... just look about and you might wish to be on the down elevator ... tis a humble move with the well burn'd friends who converted ... let us toast the Satyrs! On cue raise your cups ...

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Matthew 21: 1- 46

How interesting to be contemplating the Palm Sunday narrative a few days before Christmas! I don't think I have ever before had the two juxtaposed in this way. I have powerful memories of Palm Sunday going back to childhood. I can remember being very pleased at the presence of the children singing their Hosannas! Waving the palms in church has always been moving and wonderful. There were times when we wove the palm leaves into crosses. Sometimes I have taken the palms home and burned them the following year on Ash Wednesday.

Many traditions. Just like Christmas.

Much celebration. Just like Christmas.

The crucifixion and resurrection still to come. Just like Christmas.

Special music. Just like Christmas.

And there was one especially powerful Palm Sunday eleven years ago. I was in the midst of making up my mind to leave a certain well-known congregation and clergy person. My daughter and I went elsewhere to worship for all the Holy Week services. Will never forget the experience of that Palm Sunday.

So unusual to be thinking about this a few days before Christmas.

 

[paradox3]

The emotionally dead know to be silent about wisdom ...

Sometimes. Sometimes it is well, wise, to be silent about wisdom. Like Mary, pondering it in our hearts.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Blackbelt:

(Special pleading)


Unsafe: said "The meaning is different to you both cause you are viewing it through the wrong Lens -----it is your Worldly Lens that you can only view it from that is the Problem ------

All Bibles MAY SAY a verse a little different but the Spiritual meaning is the same ---------the words of the Bible are foolish to those who are not Spiritual ------so your claims that there is a different meaning are Spiritually unsupported ------ because Spiritually they say the same thing -----which clearly you both don't view through the right lens ------"

Well that explains it perfectly.

So I have to go on drugs and and see it through drugged eyes.
Or go into a dream state. Got you.

And then I'll see it correctly. Ok. Thanks. Lol.

No wait I'll either be drugged or in a dream state. So I wont have the capacity to read anything.

Wow! Unsafe Wow! that is beyond stupid as an explanation. If you had evidence for a soul/spirit then maybe. It would not be so stupid. (Special pleading )

 

[paradox3]

Hello All,

This seems like a good spot to stop for a Christmas break. There is a week's worth of chapters left in Matthew and I will pick up again with daily posting on Boxing Day or the day after.

Thanks for your participation. Feel free to keep commenting if anything comes to mind about the chapters we have covered so far.

Have a wonderful Christmas. See you soon . . . P3

 

[Luce NDs]

Sometimes. Sometimes it is well, wise, to be silent about wisdom. Like Mary, pondering it in our hearts.

Hart ... tis said to be a dark zone ... kind of an odd pool?

Then the theory about the dark lady ... Notre Dame ... sometimes overdone?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Blackbelt:

(Special pleading)


Unsafe: said "The meaning is different to you both cause you are viewing it through the wrong Lens -----it is your Worldly Lens that you can only view it from that is the Problem ------

All Bibles MAY SAY a verse a little different but the Spiritual meaning is the same ---------the words of the Bible are foolish to those who are not Spiritual ------so your claims that there is a different meaning are Spiritually unsupported ------ because Spiritually they say the same thing -----which clearly you both don't view through the right lens ------"

Well that explains it perfectly.

So I have to go on drugs and and see it through drugged eyes.
Or go into a dream state. Got you.

And then I'll see it correctly. Ok. Thanks. Lol.

No wait I'll either be drugged or in a dream state. So I wont have the capacity to read anything.

Wow! Unsafe Wow! that is beyond stupid as an explanation. If you had evidence for a soul/spirit then maybe. It would not be so stupid. (Special pleading )

Pavlos, I have tried to have a conversation on quite a few occasions with unsafe about translations, paraphrases, different interpretive systems. I often start with the famous timshel story from East of Eden. Gets you nowhere. Words are slippery things to her. She likes to make them all mean exactly what she thinks they mean, and if there's a possible difference in opinion, hers is right. Blackbelt's rather sloppy relationship to scripture is similar. It seems odd to me that those who take scripture so literally also don't take it very seriously.