89 chapter project: Matthew

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blackbelt1961 said:
And I was saying being Evangelical myself I never heard any Evangelical say that these are the proper words to use not one
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You have never heard of the sinner's prayer?

It was about 25 years ago that a friend of mine who was of the Pentecostal persuasion brought me to a Pentecostal Church to be set straight by the Pastor of that church to be "saved." I think I was talking with Jehovah's Witness at the time and he felt my soul was in danger of hellfire. The funny thing was he felt he was headed for damnation at the time. Anyway I think the words to the sinner's prayer were something like forgive me Lord Jesus for I am a retched sinner in need of your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins on the cross and shed your precious blood that I may be saved. Of course it was sometime ago and I am paraphrasing. So it might be somewhat of an embellishment on my part.
 
Having lived in an environment designed to keep people stupefied .. does stoppage affect all seized motivations when not well thought out? Unmoving intelligence!

Paraphrased from George Santayana on people that don't read history and novel concerns based on history ... are we condemned to repeat of the images formed?

Do people in face plants ... read when they have the focus on ignoring Nous formed by passing of time ... history ignored? Super Novas? A' Damn thingies ... thorns!

Then there are those that rest on laurel history because of serenity ... they are too comfortable ... inclusive of the pricks of conned science ...

This is stated to avoid truth and virtue as hated by despots ... thus history passes us over ... as unseen learning potential ...

Didn't get it right ...
 
unsafe said:
paradox3 ---your quote -----You get the connection to Matthew 20:1-16, right?

What does that have too with you and me in a field ----There is a Spiritual meaning to the workers in the vineyard ---so what is the Spiritual lesson in that parable ---that is the question and that is the most important thing to get from all the Scripture ------and the Holy Spirit is the only one who can give it to us ------
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You and I are in the field laboring for the same thing, I think, unsafe (although we might use different language and understand it somewhat differently).

Agreed that there is a spiritual lesson to be learned here. How would you explain the lesson the Holy Spirit would like us to learn?
 
dreamerman said:
You have never heard of the sinner's prayer?

It was about 25 years ago that a friend of mine who was of the Pentecostal persuasion brought me to a Pentecostal Church to be set straight by the Pastor of that church to be "saved." I think I was talking with Jehovah's Witness at the time and he felt my soul was in danger of hellfire. The funny thing was he felt he was headed for damnation at the time. Anyway I think the words to the sinner's prayer were something like forgive me Lord Jesus for I am a retched sinner in need of your forgiveness. I believe that you died for my sins on the cross and shed your precious blood that I may be saved. Of course it was sometime ago and I am paraphrasing. So it might be somewhat of an embellishment on my part.
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And ?

A sinners prayer is just a reflection of one's humble heart , change the wording who cares
 
paradox3 said:
You and I are in the field laboring for the same thing, I think, unsafe (although we might use different language and understand it somewhat differently).

Agreed that there is a spiritual lesson to be learned here. How would you explain the lesson the Holy Spirit would like us to learn?
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There is both warning and comfort in this parable.

Christ shows the justice that exists in God's kingdom. The custom of God's kingdom is different than the world's. God's grace alone decides how a person may be justified before God and saved. God distributes God's kingdom-gifts according to God's will.

There is a difference between those that are called into the kingdom. Some have suffered the day's heat and burden, have worked hard all their lives, have done many good works, have left and denied many things for Christ. However, when it comes to having a relationship with God, the last given faith are on the same level with the first - each group is saved by faith alone.

Should there be such people among the first as are proud of themselves, as point with conceit to their good works, to the fact that they have ministered successfully in Christ, as are offended at God's mercy toward the lowly, they cannot maintain their position in the Church.

Not being willing to be saved, they lose their salvation altogether. They bring upon themselves condemnation.
 
Jae said:
There is both warning and comfort in this parable.

Christ shows the justice that exists in God's kingdom. The custom of God's kingdom is different than the world's. God's grace alone decides how a person may be justified before God and saved. God distributes God's kingdom-gifts according to God's will.

There is a difference between those that are called into the kingdom. Some have suffered the day's heat and burden, have worked hard all their lives, have done many good works, have left and denied many things for Christ. However, when it comes to having a relationship with God, the last given faith are on the same level with the first - each group is saved by faith alone.
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Pretty much with you so far, Jae.

Jae said:
Should there be such people among the first as are proud of themselves, as point with conceit to their good works, to the fact that they have ministered successfully in Christ, as are offended at God's mercy toward the lowly, they cannot maintain their position in the Church.

Not being willing to be saved, they lose their salvation altogether. They bring upon themselves condemnation.
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What is your reference for this? It doesn't seem to come from Matthew 20.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
Believe what you will but it's you that has turn around and see him
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Er... what? It's me that will turn around to see him... or it's me that has turned around to see him... or...?

I look forward to the day when I meet Jesus face to face. I believe that he saved me when I was completely incapable of doing anything toward saving myself.
 
blackbelt, you do understand that for most of the rational world, your words make no sense?

I am a 21st Century person of rational mind. I am capable of some metaphorical feelings about Divinity, but to me, "turning around and seeing someone" isn't the way I can operate spiritually or emotionally. I'm absolutely convinced you have had a life-changing internal experience. I have had those too. How we translate them is quite different.
 
Jae said:
Er... what? It's me that will turn around to see him... or it's me that has turned around to see him... or...?

I look forward to the day when I meet Jesus face to face. I believe that he saved me when I was completely incapable of foing anything toward saving myself.
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I have news for you, your no more special then the atheist struggling on the topic of whether God is or is not.

God loves everybody regardless , we have a part to play in it . Did you have a part to play in your marriage or did your wife dominate you and take you completely without your desire and will for her
 
blackbelt1961 said:
I have news for you, your no more special then the atheist struggling on the topic of whether God is or is not.
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I agree 100% that I'm not special. I see myself as a shameful, broken man saved only by God's grace.

blackbelt1961 said:
God loves everybody
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Yes, I agree.

blackbelt1961 said:
regardless , we have a part to play in it
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A part in getting saved? How can we if we are spiritually dead.

blackbelt1961 said:
Did you have a part to play in your marriage or did your wife dominate you and take you completely without your desire and will for her
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I was as alive as I needed to be to play an active role.
 
Jae said:
I was as alive as I needed to be to play an active role.
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But your Not alive when it comes to turning your eyes to Jesus is that what you're saying.

My relationship with the Creator has two willing beings, me & Him , it sounds like you were coerced into yours
 
blackbelt1961 said:
But your Not alive when it comes to turning your eyes to Jesus is that what you're saying.

My relationship with the Creator has two willing beings, me & Him , it sounds like you were coerced into yours
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We all start out, I believe, spiritually dead. I think that's why we need to be born from above. I hold that my relationship with Christ began when he gave a spiritually dead boy new life.
 
Jae said:
We all start out, I believe, spiritually dead. I think that's why we need to be born from above. I hold that my relationship with Christ began when he gave a spiritually dead boy new life.
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Which All Began two thousand years ago when Jesus came to this earth so you and I can see and hear and turn , only then was the spirit given after Christs glorification.

Which was also the birth of the church , Believers already gathered in a second-story home waiting for the spirit . Please know they were already believers and when the spirit came they were born again which made them even stronger in their faith completely convincing them.

Which is an indication of us having some form of ability aswell turn to God before the rebirth experience.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
Which All Began two thousand years ago when Jesus came to this earth so you and I can see and hear and turn , only done with the spirit given after Christs glorification,

Which is an indication of us having some form of ability to turn to God
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We're talking in circles. My question to you remains - if people start out dead, how can they turn? They are dead. Note: not sick, not maimed, not bruised; dead.
 
Y'know, John Wesley answered that very question 250 or so years ago. You might want to look him up and study what he had to say. In the meantime, back to Matthew's gospel?
 
Jae said:
We're talking in circles. My question to you remains - if people start out dead, how can they turn? They are dead. Note: not sick, not maimed, not bruised; dead.
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Being dead in spirit does not mean being dead completely.

It means our spirit is dis connected to the Creator because of sin, but even though we are disconnected we still have the ability to read to hear the testimonies to listen to other people and say can this be possible can this be true and then the Holy Spirit comes says yes it is true and here I am and we become alive to God
 
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