1 Corinthians (various passages) - Paul is not a happy apostle

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I believe Paul made the point that no gifts are more important than other gifts. Also gifts that are the least honoured can be given the greatest honour. There is no point to arguing if tires, transmissions, or spark plugs are more important for a car. If any are missing, the car does not go. Congregations without the gifts Paul listed will eventually falter. The gifts least important to the life of the congregation according to Paul in this passage are speaking in tongues and interpreting speaking in tongues.
 
jimkenney12 said:
Almost all of the stuff in our culture about Satan is culturally derived, not biblical.
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Is a cultivated demon like ... diabolical creations according to the beastly ctreationists that claim power over everything (inclusive of God). Then to make exceptions the great powers eliminate the critical angel ... so it gho est ... like word on the fly ... altercation with desires?

May explain cations and catharsis ... and th' cathar has a twin sister! A very dark mystery of how these can be paired in androgyny ... takes a pile of gamettes ... and folk running ga mutes ... dark, silent sources of trouble and concern!
 
jimkenney12 said:
I believe Paul made the point that no gifts are more important than other gifts. Also gifts that are the least honoured can be given the greatest honour. There is no point to arguing if tires, transmissions, or spark plugs are more important for a car. If any are missing, the car does not go. Congregations without the gifts Paul listed will eventually falter. The gifts least important to the life of the congregation according to Paul in this passage are speaking in tongues and interpreting speaking in tongues.
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Paul tells us that God has appointed first apostles, then prophets, then teachers. These would be the greatest gifts I suppose.

Interesting that leadership is low on the list.
 
jimkenney12 said:
I believe Paul made the point that no gifts are more important than other gifts. Also gifts that are the least honoured can be given the greatest honour. There is no point to arguing if tires, transmissions, or spark plugs are more important for a car. If any are missing, the car does not go. Congregations without the gifts Paul listed will eventually falter. The gifts least important to the life of the congregation according to Paul in this passage are speaking in tongues and interpreting speaking in tongues.
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So does that explain the failings of the UCC and Anglican churches?
 
Some people do not digest appauling circumstances in alternate members of a population derived from random # systems like the RAM in Abraehams tale ... thus generation of countering options!

It all leads to further debasement ...
 
jimkenney12 said:
I believe Paul made the point that no gifts are more important than other gifts.
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Exactly. But the modern church's penchant for chasing after the latest societal trends risks doing that. Because preaching and leading prayer are not necessarily kewl enough for those who are more into management textbooks than scripture, but are central to being a church.
 
Is a pall line somewhat nebulous after the fall from the great carrier?

It may be fuzzy ... a bit like sheep in the night ...
 
Mendalla said:
Exactly. But the modern church's penchant for chasing after the latest societal trends risks doing that. Because preaching and leading prayer are not necessarily kewl enough for those who are more into management textbooks than scripture, but are central to being a church.
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This brings us back to the point Rev Christopher White made in his article about volunteer burnout in churches. He argued that churches need to do a better job of discerning what is essential for them to be doing. And to stop the non-essential activities
 
Remember we must flatter the rich until their bubble bursts when there is none left to do the job or carry out critical crappers --- the porcelain master!

This tuff flies ... especially when the night is dark and screams herd ... the muting is impossible ... as it was got or given! --- George Burns on the heated side of God ...
 
Failings of the UCC and Anglicans include a failing by most members to take time to learn and deepen their faith, a failing of the generations and individuals with power to transfer that power to the next generation, a failure of trust in the Holy Mystery by clergy and congregations. I also believe the people at the top of the hierarchy out employment for themselves ahead and control ahead of reform that responded to what was needed.

My supervisor in the summer of 1988 pointed iut a motion to make public the report of a consultant submitted to GC executive about four or more years earlier lamenting a wide variety of management problems in the GC offices. General Council and Conference offices continually resisted changes that threatened the employment of current employees.

I was surprised at how important it was to cushion the loss of employment by some ANW Conference staff in 2000 when the Transition Team of which I was a member brought in our recommendations for a new structure for Conference. It was okay for ministers to become unemployed on three months notice but Conference staff deserved better in their eyes.
 
Failings in the rites of the Golden Rule and appreciating the advantaged and the disadvantaged where one really needs Canon for vectoring.

Thus balls are dropped down the blow hole ... the myth of My Das' ...

If you go against the mob you're in deire shape ... hunting humans is the sport! Madness ... one has to experience it to believe inhumanity!
 
jimkenney12 said:
Failings of the UCC and Anglicans include a failing by most members to take time to learn and deepen their faith, a failing of the generations and individuals with power to transfer that power to the next generation, a failure of trust in the Holy Mystery by clergy and congregations. I also believe the people at the top of the hierarchy out employment for themselves ahead and control ahead of reform that responded to what was needed.

My supervisor in the summer of 1988 pointed iut a motion to make public the report of a consultant submitted to GC executive about four or more years earlier lamenting a wide variety of management problems in the GC offices. General Council and Conference offices continually resisted changes that threatened the employment of current employees.

I was surprised at how important it was to cushion the loss of employment by some ANW Conference staff in 2000 when the Transition Team of which I was a member brought in our recommendations for a new structure for Conference. It was okay for ministers to become unemployed on three months notice but Conference staff deserved better in their eyes.
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In your view then, most members of two denominations have failed to take time to learn and deepen their faith? Forgive me but this seems like a bitter & very wide-sweeping statement.

And in your view, they have also failed to transfer power to the next generation and failed to trust in the Holy Mystery?

Seems like an awful lot of failure.

Most of your post addresses the hierarchy in our denomination and problems at General Council/ Conference levels going back decades. There has been a lot of restructuring since those days but I suppose the jury is still out on all of it.

Would you say there anything in the readings from Corinthians that can help us to do better?
 
First, act inclusively. The first issue Paul named was not sharing food and this implies not sharing fellowship with some people eating lots on one side and some going hungry on the other side. Be in relationship with everyone in the congregation, not just the people in your group.

Secondly, encourage the sharing of gifts. Provide opportunities within the life of the congregation for sharing various gifts and celebrate the sharing and the gifts.

Third, support and encourage the development of the gifts listed, especially healing as in providing pastoral care, teaching, discernment.

In most congregations I served, fewer than 20% of the members participated in bible studies or other groups such as meditation, book studies, and other programs or workshops or conferences.

Some congregations do well at sharing power with younger and newer members. Some do not
 
Yes I have been surprised by how few people in congregations actually participate in Bible study and other similar groups.

A former minister of mine once told me he thought people often shied away from bible study because they didn't think they knew the bible well enough.

I have also noticed more willingness to attend such groups when they are led by ministry personnel rather than lay folks.

Some of this takes us back to the whole Mary and Martha polarity. Some church members are simply more comfortable with performing practical tasks.

Again, both ways of serving are valuable. Different spiritual gifts.
 
jimkenney12 said:
In most congregations I served, fewer than 20% of the members participated in bible studies or other groups such as meditation, book studies, and other programs or workshops or conferences.
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I would love to participate in some of the study groups that I have seen in churches I have been to. Problem? Because of the aging church and high number of active members who are retired (at least I assume that's the reason), they are now mostly held during business hours when I am working. And they could just argue that they are catering to the needs of their members by scheduling in a manner that is, to some degree, exclusive of those of us still working a 9-5 M-F job.

paradox3 said:
A former minister of mine once told me he thought people often shied away from bible study because they didn't think they knew the bible well enough.
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Which is kind of, yeah. I mean, isn't the point of attending a study to learn more? Shouldn't a well-run study assume the attendees don't know and are there to learn? And if it is a more advanced group that presumes existing knowledge, that should be explicit in the advertising. If people are feeling shamed by their lack of knowledge, something is being done wrong.
 
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