An article "The church is killing its gay kids"
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revsdd
Well-Known Member
Yes to all questions.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
You and I seem to see how GOD treats sin , some what different. I myself would rather not come in front of GOD with sin.GOD knows who you are and what you are , HE made us you know. We at one time have all sinned . Then He came an died for our sin"s GOD Who Jesus The Christ.airclean - I fully believe that God's love is perfect and unconditional. It's my love that's faulty as all get out.
revjohn
Well-Known Member
RitaTG said:
Excellent point.
RitaTG said:
The Church is the body and/or bride of Christ whether that makes it safe for any but another part of the body or Christ himself has been a matter of some contention. Interestingly we worship in sanctuaries and a sanctuary is typically intended to be a place of refuge. We have instances where, for example, the legal authorities of this country and other countries will not prosecute individuals who have been given "sanctuary" in a Church ediface. Most cases the crimes being prosecuted are not considered violent so the notion of "sanctuary" has not been put to a rigorous testing.
Apart from that it strikes me that if the greatest commandments are about loving God and loving our neighbour a Church sanctuary should be one place where a message of love was unmistakeable.
RitaTG said:
This is tough. I firmly believe that God accepted me for who I was. I also firmly believe that God's love was such that I was no longer content which who and what I was at the first moment of acceptance. I have been transformed since that day and, I would argue, I am continuously in the process of being transformed.
So I think initially a Church should be an accepting place. If it is not ultimately a transformative place it has little of value to offer any.
That said, I think that most of us need to step back and let go of how we think others need to be transformed or what it is they need to be transformed. I'm content to let the bulk of the transformation be a collaboration between the individual and God. Community exists (ideally) to help the individual discern the leading of the Holy Spirit and not primarily to usurp the voice of God and dictate what must be discerned.
RitaTG said:
Yes. I agree that the Church should love them in a way that does not harm them. I am also aware that the Church is subject to error and as such may cause harm even when inflicting injury is not desired. Part of accepting will extend to mistakes made by others whom we believe "ought to know better."
RitaTG said:
Well, that is part and parcel of what Sanctuary intends. Interestingly enough Sanctuary only extends to the boundaries within the Church. Once outside of the Sanctuary individuals are in sink or swim mode. The early Church would often assign a Mentor to knew Christians because the buddy-system keeps many folk from drowning.
It is an interesting turn of history that the Church pays not enough attention to what they are doing internally and directs a great deal of time and energy into combating external problems.
Just recently followers of the lectionary were reminded that it wasn't what went into our bodies that made us unclean so much as it was what came from inside our hearts which rendered us ceremonially and spiritually filthy.
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Hi RitaTG -- have been on thread . If you can not understand that I am sorry Jae was talking about himself an how he felt about how GOD works. Again you don't understand. The Church is GODS . Not mine and not your"s. Your thread seems to say GODS church is responsible for young people who feel drawn to the gay movement killing them self"s. Now if you would RitaTG Tell us why you feel The Church is responsible
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
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And the number one reason why youth might be "drawn to the gay movement"? Because they're gay. Straight boys are not attracted to boys. Straight girls are not attracted to girls. If they are, they are not straight.
The church should love them for who they are and should be open to doing ministry with them. I believe that the church has also been charged with the role of, when appropriate, speaking hard truths with live into people's lives. I believe it's important for the church to stand against the sexual sins of fornication, adultery, and prostitution.
Yes, that's the way it works.
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
If you have not got the point by now airclean then I find little more I can do to show you why the church is responsible for the harm they have and are doing to LGBTQ youth (and adults).
If by understanding you mean to think like you do then I am gratified that I am guilty of not understanding.
Of course the church is supposed to be God's ..... but then there are so many that are more than willing to step in and speak for God.
"feel drawn to the gay movement" ...... you really miss the mark .... you really don't understand nor are you willing to.
Please ... before you give me a bunch more "God stuff" ...... please try and address my questions about Exodus International.
Right there .... the largest ... most comprehensive and earnest effort ever to address the "gay issue" with biblical principles was a staggering and astonishing failure. Maybe God was trying to say something through that failure?
Please ... start with that ... Exodus International ..... hopefully the well being of the youth is worth such an effort.
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
Can we at least agree that simply being LGBTQ is NOT a sin?
Could we further agree that how a person lives out that truth ... just like a heterosexual or cisgendered person can be either good or bad depending on the very same standards??
airclean33
Well-Known Member
Hi RitaTG---Exodus International.??? This about third time you have thrown this my way.I told you I know very little about this group . I believe they could not get along together. There are many Christian church"s that don't agree on many things. There is how ever, but one church of GOD. I have been to many church"s, that say the are of Christ. I know when I come through the doors if they truly are. I understand you believe I am hard, when I post.That is because I will say the truth , with out sugar coating it. I never wrote what The Bible has in it RitaTG . But I will try and tell you just what it said"s without taken a word"s out or putting them in. I know GOD Love"s you and all those people who are in the gay movement. . Don"t just listen, don't listen to anyone , Just read what GOD wrote through out His Word The Bible . It is there and has been for over 4.000 years or more, just so you could find your way home. Just think about it , you could be the answer to these children. If you bump into any 150 year old"s along let me know .I can"t find any , I think they all went HOME.
RitaTG
Well-Known Member
A rather disjointed reply airclean ....
Ok ... so you don't know about Exodus International nor are you willing to do a bit of research...
That sort of makes anything else you post of little value to the discussion....
As for you knowing the "truth" ..... biblically ...... your posts offers little to affirm that notion.
As for reading .... hmmmm ...... what you really are saying is reading with your interpretation and understanding.
No thank you ....... there are other more considered resources....
Now ... could I be the "answer" to some of these LGBTQ youth ...... good point..... perhaps I will be .... perhaps I already am.
A scary notion for me ..... but I will do my best to stick up for them and show them that they are indeed beautiful and wonderful just as God has created them (LGBTQ). I will show them what a gift and responsibility being LGBTQ is.
Now as for 150 year olds ..... you do have me scracthing my head as to where you came up with that LOL.
RitaTG, I don't see anything in the Bible directly saying that simply being LGBTQ is sinful or not. So, there is at least in my mind a certain degree of uncertainty. Some will be quick to claim that the Bible does directly address same-sex relations. However, there is the question of whether or not the relations it speaks against are the same as same-sex relationships are today. Other plausible interpretations of texts have been made which suggest that what is really being spoken against in the Bible are things like inhospitality, gang rape, male prostitution, and idolatry. On the subject of transgenderism, I don't see anything in the Bible for or against it. So RitaTG, I'm not as certain as you on the morality of these things as you are.
RitaTG said:
I'm not sure.
dreamerman
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So if morality is objectively set by God wouldn't that make morality subjective to all humankind? Since no one is god then all our open to interpret morality for themselves. Seems like to me morality is set more by society than by god in general.
dreamerman, I believe that since morality is set by God, all of us should listen to God when it comes to learning about morality and follow him when it comes to living moral lives.