And they're off...the election thread

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Mendalla

Mendalla

Happy headbanging ape!!
Pronouns
He/Him/His
The campaign is now officially on and it will be the longest since 1872 (1867 and 1872 had staggered voting so were very long). 78 days of these guys (and 1 gal) spewing at each other:eek:? I may just extend my vacation in Europe until after October 19.:cool:

So, here's the election thread. What do you think? Who will win? Who do you want to win? Who do you want to lose? Is Trudeau ready? Is Harper an evil demagogue or a tough man making hard choices? Can Mulcair maintain the momentum Jack built? Will May get into any of the debates? Is the Bloc even worth mentioning anymore?

Keep it civil and pass me the popcorn (though a bottle of wine and some BC bud may be a better way to survive this:rolleyes:).
 
Strategically I think Harper would have been wiser to dissolve now and have the election at the beginning of September (and once again ignore his non-constitutionally binding fixed election date). Because I think a long campaign in an uncertain (at best) economy hurts him. AT the same time, there is one party that has the best economic resources for a long campaign---guess who. So maybe he gets a minority with a broke opposition that can't afford to move non-confidence.
 
I think this election will seem too long to everyone save the Tories who figure they need the time to build enough support to win. Who will win - I feel a Liberal minority. Who do I want to win - whoever will put people as a priority above corporations. Trudeau's ready, and Harper's not evil, but both are corrupt - that's what power does to a person. Mulcair is not Jack. I like Mulcair, but no one's Jack. I would love to have May in the debates. Indeed, I would love to have the leaders of all of the parties in the debates. Will that happen? No. Personally, I will be voting for Borys W. our local Liberal. That puts me at odds with the majority of people in my church who tend to think that being conservative theologically automatically means being conservative politically.
 
@Pr. Jae interesting to hear someone else voting at odds with the norm for their church. UUs tend to be heavily NDP to the point where it sometimes feels like the two are inseparable. The NDP MP in my church's riding has a number of us working for her. I have been a Green supporter for many years and kind of soured on the NDP since my university days.
 
I think Tom's going to win. I think Ontarians forget, because they have always swung between Liberal and Conservative, but Liberals have a strong history in Ottawa, and the Trudeau name is a legacy in Ottawa...everybody else cares less...the rest of the country has boosted Mulcair's numbers to first place in recent weeks. he's stronger, feistier, on his toes, and more ready, than Trudeau. Although Justin seems like a nice guy and looks good on camera.
 
Mendalla said:
@Pr. Jae interesting to hear someone else voting at odds with the norm for their church. UUs tend to be heavily NDP to the point where it sometimes feels like the two are inseparable. The NDP MP in my church's riding has a number of us working for her. I have been a Green supporter for many years and kind of soured on the NDP since my university days.
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Do NDP values get taught at UU meetings Mendalla? I find that often in conservative churches, Conservative values are preached, without the party being directly named. We are, however, warned, 'Make sure you make the godly choice!'
 
Kimmio said:
I think Tom's going to win. I think Ontarians forget, because they have always swung between Liberal and Conservative, but Liberals have a strong history in Ottawa, and the Trudeau name is a legacy in Ottawa...everybody else cares less...the rest of the country has boosted Mulcair's numbers to first place in recent weeks. he's stronger, feistier, on his toes, and more ready, than Trudeau. Although Justin seems like a nice guy and looks good on camera.
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Polls have often shown NDP support to be higher than it turns out to be on election day. I feel many people like the idea of voting NDP more than the thought of actually marking their [X] beside the name of their NDP candidate.
 
I read recently that many young voters support a coalition between the NDP and Liberals but of course Trudeau won't go for that. I say, whatever works. It can be straightened out in another 4 years...but we need a change.
 
Pr. Jae said:
Polls have often shown NDP support to be higher than it turns out to be on election day. I feel many people like the idea of voting NDP more than the thought of actually marking their [X] beside the name of their NDP candidate.
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i don't think so this time. I think Canadians really want a change and some of Justin's policies are wish washy/ flip floppy, and too close to Harper's. He actually doesn't seem ready to me...nothing to do with Harper's ads. I gave him a chance at first, but since have I have sensed he isn't ready, and just still have that sense. He cruised for awhile on celebrity status. I feel Tom is a stronger more experienced leader and a tougher force for Harper to recon with in this campaign..
 
sorry @Pinga that wasn't to make you scream. I honestly feel that way and haven't been paying attention to any attack ads. I guess I could find some other way to word it, like, maybe next election he will be more seasoned.
 
Pr. Jae said:
Do NDP values get taught at UU meetings Mendalla? I find that often in conservative churches, Conservative values are preached, without the party being directly named. We are, however, warned, 'Make sure you make the godly choice!'
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It's a tough call because "NDP Values" do overlap UU values so much. If a UU who supports the NDP preaches on economic equality, it's hard to say which hat they are wearing (likely both, though). Values like "respect for the inherent worth and dignity of every person" and "The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all" (both quoted straight from the principles) do tend to lend themselves to things like supporting social programs, human rights, democratic reform, and so on that also tend to show up a lot in NDP platforms. So it becomes a bit of a chicken and egg problem: are UUs more likely to support the NDP because our principles fit well with theirs or are NDP supporters more likely to be UU for the same reason? That said, I have known at least one UU Progressive Conservative supporter (emphasis on the "Progressive" because I think he opposed Harper becoming leader).

My falling out with the NDP goes back to my sense that they were in the hip pocket of the unions (sorry, folks, I think the union movement is not all kitten and roses) and not necessarily working for the interests of the vast majority of people who aren't union members, though I find that to be less the case with the current, more centrist, NDP. In essence, I didn't see that the "for all" part of the second principle quoted above was being met. I also found them more than willing to sacrifice the environment when union jobs were at stake and, for me, the UU seventh principle (respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part) is almost the most important.

At present, I am rather uncertain about this election. It's between Green and NDP and sitting it out. Harper is too autocratic and conservative and my local Conservative MP is just a puppet who parrots party press releases; Trudeau just seems to be trying to cruise on charisma, bloodline, and popular stands like pot legalization and I don't really see him as a strong leader in the mold of his famous father. The Libs do have a history of putting strong candidates in our riding (Joe Fontana, in spite of his rather nasty fall from grace, held it for most of the Chretien/Martin years and was succeeded by Glen Pearson, a local activist who probably would make more sense as a New Democrat) so I suppose I should not totally rule them out, though. Mulcair seems to be the most prime minsterial of the bunch, but until I delve into the NDP platform to see if my past concerns are still there and see who is running for them in my riding, it's a tough call. I have soured a bit on the Greens after my son pointed out their support for questionable health care items like homeopathy but still like them on many other fronts.
 
I'm where you are, Mendalla...I support the idea of unions in the sense of fair wages and worker's rights, though...but in my experience, preserving membership has been more important than human rights in the workplace issues. They are so afraid of losing membership, they do a dance between appeasing the employer (so the employer doesn't stop cooperating with them and turn employees against them), and not ticking off other members, rather than supporting higher principles...not always, but I did feel they at times walked on egg shells rather than do what they were paid to do...or having to fit or move within their classifications that didn't take into account unique aspects of different jobs within their classifications, didn't provide the same level of human rights protections that the human rights laws, do, strangely...not current ones. But, I do support fair wages and benefits and non Union employers don't have to cough that up. Nevertheless, I think I want Mulcair to win. I so hope for a change, any change, at this point.
 
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Fair enough. I did that last time. The party I would've wanted to lead overall had a brand new inexperienced candidate in my riding versus a well respected candidate in my neighbourhood, whose party was my second choice...and I was thinking more locally, then, I guess.
 
GordW said:
Strategically I think Harper would have been wiser to dissolve now and have the election at the beginning of September (and once again ignore his non-constitutionally binding fixed election date). Because I think a long campaign in an uncertain (at best) economy hurts him. AT the same time, there is one party that has the best economic resources for a long campaign---guess who. So maybe he gets a minority with a broke opposition that can't afford to move non-confidence.
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prophesy, brother, prophesy! :3
 
Pr. Jae said:
I vote for the local candidate, not along party lines. Thus far, the NDP has no candidate running in my riding.
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I have voted both for and against local candidates in the past. I used to vote for a popular Liberal when I was still in Kitchener because I liked him and his rival was a jacka** Conservative who would be quite at home in Harper-land. I voted against Sheila Copps when she famously "resigned" and then immediately ran to replace herself. That was the one and only time I voted for Reform because she was being a serious jacka** in my opinion and the Reform candidate was actually a fairly decent, not overly doctrinaire Reformer (and I did admire the Reform leader Preston Manning on many levels, even if our politics weren't aligned very much). I might vote locally this time once I look at the slate. I know the Conservative is useless mouthpiece for Harper but perhaps one of the other parties is fielding someone interesting.
 
what i want to know is
what underwear do all of the candidates wear?
who wears Armani, who wears froot of the loom, who wears underroos?
 
Inannawhimsey said:
what i want to know is
what underwear do all of the candidates wear?
who wears Armani, who wears froot of the loom, who wears underroos?
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I would so love to see that question come up in a debate or scrum @Inannawhimsey :ROFLMAO:. It would likely tell us more about them than any question about actual policies. (And hey, that's a rather masculine list. Maybe some of the ladies get their undies at Victoria's Secret or La Senza :whistle:).

In fact, I may just go to a town hall or two just to ask it (and likely get thrown out).o_O
 
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