Cheri DiNovo introduces legislation to ban Conversion Therapy for LGBTQ youth.

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

People jump out of burning buildings and plunge to their deaths to escape the pain of the flames. Would somebody be wrong to try to keep someone they loved from entering the burning building in the first place?

I would sure be interested in hearing how you plan to take this to churches, because you never take anything I write seriously and my arguments are going to be what you will come up against in those churches. Or is your plan to picket churches with "Deliberately Obtuse" signs.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is to speak fiery about your beliefs ... like walking into a burning building knowing it is not on fire? Make it subtle ... otherwise the so called conscious people will be confused .. simply because it is biblical ... knowledge is evil (they insist on telling you the true magi-carpet) ... although the truth is far from irrational modes of following the heart alone.

Alas you can't say such things to people with stone clad philosophies of pure powerful Love driving the thing ... rationality is right out of here ...

If you say anything probing ... make it like a Story as Sharp as a Knife edged myth ... it can cut through stony R'Moor ...

In carnation: things are not the way they appear when led by Roman Empiric ... something to look into as adept ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Gnostic faith is when you don't need the staff ... for you have a good internal story of emotional intellect ... devil to those that go on raw emotional alone (cloes to rhode rage)! Do I know ... no ... only a Buss with ID ... when pas 'n ...

 

[RitaTG]

RitaTG, I find your comment here about me really disappointing. Never in all the time we've been dialoguing here on WC2 - answering each others questions and striving toward mutual understanding - have I ever made such a comment about you.

Jae ... you are deliberately obtuse....
And I would indeed be very troubled to have LGBTQ persons under your care because of that.
I know how deep this goes in the heart ..... we need more than obtuse....
Sorry .... the well being of the little ones comes first
If you are willing to put some effort into honestly striving to understand I am always open to dialogue. The issue is so very important.

 

[RitaTG]

People jump out of burning buildings and plunge to their deaths to escape the pain of the flames. Would somebody be wrong to try to keep someone they loved from entering the burning building in the first place?

I would sure be interested in hearing how you plan to take this to churches, because you never take anything I write seriously and my arguments are going to be what you will come up against in those churches. Or is your plan to picket churches with "Deliberately Obtuse" signs.

I will consider your idea Pontifex .... but I cannot see me picketing with signs.... churches do that.
This last weekend I was at a Pride event on Saturday in a Northern Ontario community.
For the second year in a row the church people were there with their signs.....
Again I asked what church they were from and they would not say.
I found out
Myself and a friend went to their church and I wore my rainbow skirt, buttons etc.
We were there for the whole service and we were friendly and we approached them.
We were not disruptive or mean at all.
We made it personal ... person to person .... and actually made friends
I feel that they are beginning to reconsider what they have been doing and are beginning to see how hurtful and condemning what they have been doing is. They got to know us as open loving gentle vulnerable souls.
A bridge has been made and actual dialogue is now possible.
Baby steps......
That is how I handle it Pontifex ...... for real.
Maybe they will finally have the opportunity to understand that we do not choose this nor is it bad in itself.
We will see .... but in any case they will have a name ... a face ... and a human person to relate to.
Maybe we can help keep them from entering the burning building of judging that which they know nothing about.

 

[Jaebius]

Jae ... you are deliberately obtuse....
And I would indeed be very troubled to have LGBTQ persons under your care because of that.
I know how deep this goes in the heart ..... we need more than obtuse....
Sorry .... the well being of the little ones comes first

These kind of sad, harsh, uncalled-for criticisms Rita are not facilitating further dialogue with you. If this is how you are planning to address the pastors of churches you hope to engage in reflection with, I feel you will not benefit your cause.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

That's awesome Rita, and maybe somewhere along the way, you will finally hear why they are the way they are.

 

[RitaTG]

These kind of sad, harsh, uncalled-for criticisms Rita are not facilitating further dialogue with you. If this is how you are planning to address the pastors of churches you hope to engage in reflection with, I feel you will not benefit your cause.

Understandable from your point of view I suppose.....
I feel the criticisms I have made are valid. And how I wish they were not.
I would very much love to have real dialogue with you where neither of us ducks an issue.
That would be a great help in changing my opinion .
Shall we?????? ......

 

[RitaTG]

That's awesome Rita, and maybe somewhere along the way, you will finally hear why they are the way they are.

Exactly Pontifex ..... exactly .......
And in turn they will finally have the opportunity to listen to what I have to share.
There was a time not so long ago I was very much like them.

 

[Jaebius]

Understandable from your point of view I suppose.....
I feel the criticisms I have made are valid. And how I wish they were not.
I would very much love to have real dialogue with you where neither of us ducks an issue.
That would be a great help in changing my opinion .
Shall we?????? ......

What issue(s) do you feel I've ducked? I believe I've always tried to give you honest answers to any questions you've asked me. There have been times when I felt I was really sharing from the heart, only to get a reply from you to the tune of, "Oh you're being so vague again."

 

[RitaTG]

What issue(s) do you feel I've ducked? I believe I've always tried to give you honest answers to any questions you've asked me. There have been times when I felt I was really sharing from the heart, only to get a reply from you to the tune of, "Oh you're being so vague again."

Good grief Jae!!!!!! ..... reread the posts and how I have tried time and again to get you to actually focus on the topic at hand and the specific points being discussed at that point in the thread!
Pick any discussion we have had where I have become exasperated with you!
Get down to brass tacks please!
I would much rather have you clearly articulate a viewpoint I disagree with than being put off by non answers and deflections because you are uncomfortable. I know you are an intelligent person so I find your misinterpretations of questions that are clear to others to feel like you are deliberately putting me off.
If you hold a viewpoint .... fine .... all I ask for is a clear honest post.... please don't hide or run....
We will discuss your viewpoint and reasoning and mine as well ..... lets put them up for examination ..... iron sharpening iron so to speak.
The issues are so very important ...... I hope you agree it is worth the effort.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

There was a time not so long ago I was very much like them.

How were you like them?
And how are you now different?

 

[Jaebius]

Good grief Jae!!!!!! ..... reread the posts and how I have tried time and again to get you to actually focus on the topic at hand and the specific points being discussed at that point in the thread!
Pick any discussion we have had where I have become exasperated with you!
Get down to brass tacks please!
I would much rather have you clearly articulate a viewpoint I disagree with than being put off by non answers and deflections because you are uncomfortable. I know you are an intelligent person so I find your misinterpretations of questions that are clear to others to feel like you are deliberately putting me off.
If you hold a viewpoint .... fine .... all I ask for is a clear honest post.... please don't hide or run....
We will discuss your viewpoint and reasoning and mine as well ..... lets put them up for examination ..... iron sharpening iron so to speak.
The issues are so very important ...... I hope you agree it is worth the effort.

RitaTG, thank you for the compliment. If there are issues you'd like to discuss then please let's do so. I will continue to strive to give good and honest answers and I trust you will too. Again I ask - what questions have you asked that you felt my answers for were too vague. Let's begin discussing there anew shall we.

 

[RitaTG]

RitaTG, thank you for the compliment. If there are issues you'd like to discuss then please let's do so. I will continue to strive to give good and honest answers and I trust you will too. Again I ask - what questions have you asked that you felt my answers for were too vague. Let's begin discussing there anew shall we.

page 7 ... this thread ..... I asked you very clearly to tell us what your church shares about being transgender.
Please review ..... that is a very recent example.....
Also .... several times in various places I have asked the position of your church on things ...... others have even tried to help get you to understand and answer and you have not.
Could we start there? ..... I have provided a very recent example in this very thread as a start.
Thank you
Rita

 

[RitaTG]

How were you like them?
And how are you now different?

I used to be judgmental and I felt being gay and especially being transgender was sin and could be prayed away.
I hated what I was and tried oh so hard to get rid of it....
I would have probably carried the sign to the Pride event....
How am I different ....
Love .... love found a way into my heart regarding this truth in me. I thought it was a curse I brought upon myself.
I have come to realize that the gift of transgenderism is an amazing wonderful precious gift!
That what I am is not something to be ashamed of but rather something to be lived out openly and unashamed in a glorious wholesome way!
My living with a grateful loving heart I feel is how I feel I best honour my God.
I will not be ashamed of the gift I have been given

 

[Jaebius]

page 7 ... this thread ..... I asked you very clearly to tell us what your church shares about being transgender.
Please review ..... that is a very recent example.....

Frankly RitaTG, I consider that question to be pretty difficult to answer. I've been going to that church for around fifteen years now. I'm not certain I could give an adequate description of any one subject that's been taught and preached about over the stretch of over a decade. If you're wondering whether or not we teach and preach conversion therapy, we do not. Indeed, we don't usually teach and preach anything about transgenderism. The one time of the year the subject has usually been brought up has been indirectly, and during Toronto's Pride Festival. That seems reasonable to me, as a church should be addressing things going on in the world around it. The line of what's usually put forth by the church leadership is that we should be concerned for the people for choosing to participate in the festival and parade, and pray that God might save them, and put an end to such demonstrations Of course, of late the instruction has not only revolved around the Pride Festival, what with Premier Wynne's desire to usher in what we see as an inappropriate sex ed curriculum.

 

[Luce NDs]

A character without recall ... a blind script? The joi-st (Planck) of watching blind scripts deal with things they refuse to see or hear ... no joie to M as compared to people free of bode an spirit ... just restive souls chimeric inuit ... snow Jobs? Sort of like micro beads ... so small the overblown psyche can't see intuit ... a range of the imagination supporting outlanders? Thus neigh OBI things ... constructing parallels ... some blackouts and equivalent washouts ... white's guy syndrome; feint you can see thro'M?

 

[Jon71]

What issue(s) do you feel I've ducked? I believe I've always tried to give you honest answers to any questions you've asked me. There have been times when I felt I was really sharing from the heart, only to get a reply from you to the tune of, "Oh you're being so vague again."

I see it too. When you either don't have an answer or know it will be particularly unpopular I think you pretend to be dense and ask questions to deflect the direction of the conversation. Perhaps it's become such a habit you don't see it yourself.

 

[Luce NDs]

Dense ... the dance around the truth, bottom line, until one can get fundamental emotions cleared ... may take a trip at Zea ... before a person declares: compared to everything ... "I know nothing"! Tis an awful bounce for the un-humbled ... like ten-seis ze Ba'aL a hairy or fuzzy thing-heh ... like Ba'aL M's tale when getting away from the emotional loch for a bit! Allows for soul isle a'quoi ... sos ewe can Ba at yers elf ... like give a slap to the side of the head-man ... jaer a thought loose ... the unconscious is a mule for work ... even bugs yah when sleeping ... rearranging heady fur nit Ures ... like a fur lined rime ... fuzzy Ballads?

 

[Jaebius]

I see it too. When you either don't have an answer or know it will be particularly unpopular I think you pretend to be dense and ask questions to deflect the direction of the conversation. Perhaps it's become such a habit you don't see it yourself.

Perhaps.