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The difference between Relational Faith and Transactional Faith ------

Relational Faith ---Has it's focus on knowing and having Agape for God and Trusting Him Only regardless of what Life throws at us -----

Transactional Faith ---Has it's focus on Behaviour Doing Good deeds to get positive reward --If I do good then God will Bless me ----it is like a contract in a business deal ---you do good for me and I will do good to you -----
 
The problem with the Bible, anyone can put a spin on the translation to mean whatever they want.

If only there were more than just an old book to go by.
 
Jaebius said:
If our questioning comes from humility, that can lead to growth. If it comes from suspicion that God’s Word's unreliable, that posture resists Him, because it separates His power from His revelation
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I consider myself to be a non-resistant non-believer. It is not that I am not a Christian because I have not heard the gospel. It is because I have heard the gospel, but find it factually unconvincing.

What I also do not believe is that I am going to be going to a real place called hell to be punished for a passive non-belief. I read as much as I can and I am still unconvinced that I deserve to go to hell because I have not decided to convert to Christianity.

I would love to inherit eternal life. I would love to be the recipient of endless love and to see my dead friends and relatives again and worship what deserves to be worshipped.

I do want that but I am told that is not sufficient for receiving it. Apparently according to the "True" Christians I have to actually believe that it exists in the first place - and of that I am not yet convinced.
 
WhyCzar said:
with all it's contradictions?
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The contradictions, WhyCzar, are places of holy struggle, where faith matures. They remind us that God’s truth's beyond our neat categories.

What's contradictory's actually transformative. The Bible asks us into encounter with its contradictions to draw us into relationship. It’s about being shaped by the Spirit.

If you'd like to chat about specific contradictions, let's get coffee ☕
 
WhyCzar said:
Keeping in mind that dating is an incredibly speculative enterprise?
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Dating's being speculative, WhyCzar, makes it fascinating.

You’re stepping into the unknown. There’s potential for discovery. Growth. Connection!

The beauty lies in how people navigate that uncertainty together.

It’s about embracing the process with openness and empathy.

After all, speculation’s the spark that keeps relationships dynamic and alive.

Do you see dating more as exploration, risk-taking or connection-building?

Oh, and just to be clear, I'm off the market
 
WhyCzar said:
If only there were more than just an old book to go by.
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One of these alternate (heretical?) Gnostic bible views in the history of Christianity is the idea that there are kind of two gods in a way which I find fascinating.

There's like an evil demiurge who creates the material world and the material world is evil and bad and terrible and there's the spiritual realm which is good and we're sort of trapped in the material realm.

"Heretical" views might believe that for example, the god of the old testament is this demiurgic evil creator (or incompetent creator) of the material world and Jesus comes from the spiritual realm to come and help us break free of our material conditions.

A bit of a weird and wacky dualist view?

Broadly speaking, material world bad and spiritual world good.

As far as I understand Gnosticism, it is not really about what Jesus did it is about what Jesus knew (not believed). Jesus brought knowledge and if you know the right stuff that is what will save you.

Some of the Gnostic gospels don't even mention the crucifixion/resurrection - or they have a different interpretation of what was going on there.

The Gnostic scriptures are from later than the books in the new testament and are condemned as heretical if I am not mistaken.

In the new testament the four gospels are Matthew Mark Luke and John but there do exist other gospels and apocalyptic literature.

The gospel of Judas, Thomas, Phillip and the apocalypse of Peter to name some of them.

So there all these texts that people have written and at some point in the early church, these texts are floating around and at some point people decide they should start putting together some kind of scriptural cannon.

Amazing Discovery:

The first person to give this a go was Marcion of Sinope and he omitted the entire old testament because Jesus was his guy, and wanted nothing to do with the evil guy in the hebrew scriptures.

So the first attempt at a Christian bible actually excludes the Old testament on the grounds that the God of the old testament is too evil to worship.
 
unsafe said:
The difference between Relational Faith and Transactional Faith ------

Relational Faith ---Has it's focus on knowing and having Agape for God and Trusting Him Only regardless of what Life throws at us -----

Transactional Faith ---Has it's focus on Behaviour Doing Good deeds to get positive reward --If I do good then God will Bless me ----it is like a contract in a business deal ---you do good for me and I will do good to you -----
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Let's not, unsafe, throw out the biblical truth that God blesses obedience. Scripture's full of covenant promises tied to faithfulness.

Don't you dare, unsafe, confuse reward with entitlement.

Grace empowers obedience.

The real difference's between covenantal trust that produces obedience and contractual manipulation that seeks control.

Works without faith are empty. To pit them against each other's to miss the Christian life's covenantal wholeness!
 
Jaebius said:
Works without faith are empty.
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Faith without works is dead Faith -----Jaebius -----your putting the cart before the horse here by putting works first ----Christ's-Faith will propel the believer to act -----

Strong's Concordance

"Faith is always a response to a divine revelation" . "Faith . . . both in its initiation and every step of the way, is Spirit given . . . faith is God given"

"Faith precedes works, and is not something merely deduced by reason of existing"

Faith (4102/pistis) involves belief but it goes beyond human believing because it involves the personal revelation (inworking) of God.

Faith is only (exclusively) given to the redeemed. It is not a virtue that can be worked up by human effort.

Transactional - Faith represents the Old Covenant Mosaic Law ----Keep the law you get Blessed ---Don't keep the law your bring the Curse -----Do good get good ---do bad get bad ----
 
God is great at setting up conflicts that would make the single-minded question themselves from both sides ... of course one side believes itself more Judean (an old word for more power as the irony is cast)!

God as love impassions everyone into a crazed state of reality ... that makes everything in the circle go round and round like Perry C!

He cut hair for a start ... gave a goal for Fudd and the other presumed winners that didn't even know that they would lose in the dark ... the question was what would they lose ... curiosity as the item that became familiar ... it ruins relations ... even when some are so proud they can't tell the difference ... avarice sets in ... allowing a fresh start ...

Is that a stupid go round ...
 
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WhyCzar said:
I consider myself to be a non-resistant non-believer. It is not that I am not a Christian because I have not heard the gospel. It is because I have heard the gospel, but find it factually unconvincing.

What I also do not believe is that I am going to be going to a real place called hell to be punished for a passive non-belief. I read as much as I can and I am still unconvinced that I deserve to go to hell because I have not decided to convert to Christianity.

I would love to inherit eternal life. I would love to be the recipient of endless love and to see my dead friends and relatives again and worship what deserves to be worshipped.

I do want that but I am told that is not sufficient for receiving it. Apparently according to the "True" Christians I have to actually believe that it exists in the first place - and of that I am not yet convinced.
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Faith, WhyCzar, is trust. Trust begins even before full conviction.

It's stepping into a relationship. You begin by opening yourself to love's possibility.

Keep walking, WhyCzar. Keep asking. Keep desiring. If you don't, who will?

God's patient. The Spirit works through questioning's process.

If you ever wish, I'd be honoured to walk alongside you in study. Prayer. Conversation. ☕

You're not outside of God’s reach. You're not despised for your doubts
 
unsafe said:
Faith without works is dead Faith -----Jaebius -----your putting the cart before the horse here by putting works first ----Christ's-Faith will propel the believer to act -----

Strong's Concordance

"Faith is always a response to a divine revelation" . "Faith . . . both in its initiation and every step of the way, is Spirit given . . . faith is God given"

"Faith precedes works, and is not something merely deduced by reason of existing"

Faith (4102/pistis) involves belief but it goes beyond human believing because it involves the personal revelation (inworking) of God.

Faith is only (exclusively) given to the redeemed. It is not a virtue that can be worked up by human effort.

Transactional - Faith represents the Old Covenant Mosaic Law ----Keep the law you get Blessed ---Don't keep the law your bring the Curse -----Do good get good ---do bad get bad ----
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Scripture, unsafe, warns against your transactional view that reduces covenant life to “Do good, get good!”

Grace produces discipleship's life. Works are living faith's evidence.

By denying this, you risk antinomianism, something the apostles consistently rejected.

Let's hold together what God's joined. Faith as the root, works as the fruit! To deny their inseparability's perilous
 
God is a great unknown as the darkness that is all around us causing the fears to be rendered to a condensed form resulting in terrorism ... unless you see a way out under cover of the shadow ... one must have their own personal unknown for a bit or piece of escape into the other side that may only be an abrupt return from where you were previously subjected to objective rejection as ... well, just a further unknown ... as ultimately people do despise learning, knowledge and all that strange intelligence that we will unknome in antinomian activity ... (antinomianism involves being released from oral law by having an ultimate wisdom about what is to be done ... ultimately strange to those that do not wish to know ... shadowy?

I confess to those that hate my awareness ... that I don't know either one regardless of the conjunction in unknown places!

Some do nominate the unknown as God and there it is temporally as a word hanging there ... in Eire! The Celts were great hummers so as to initiate Gaels over open waters ... howls? Sometimes shrouded and hooded in clouded issue ...

Ultimately it is beyond what's down here and thus unknown as below whatever limits are floated at present ... sometimes the way people behave you can see there are holes in limits ... stellar, or Steller? Can you peddle it thus salve ... as rubbed ... slick!

No body will believe as they didn't investigate it thoroughly ... no question! Terror crept in as a cloud ... it is said they circulate ... circumspect?

Is unknome familiar or something to learn from sources that are extensive ... and now a bad word as the meaning slips as the purple of eve falls on a dark garden ... high burn Ayah? Depends on the feeding ... sometimes the drink ... in a communion of alters ...
 
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If one was to put that together could it conjunct ... without opposition? Unlikely ... because of all the unknowns ... that were displaced ... only a idea that was all over the place would be aware ... these ideas tend to deteriorate from use ...

Robert Unger put a book together on really strange things called shocking memes or Electric Memes as same things ... that couldn't stand one an other ...

So much to gather for those rejected ... prodigal material? Just crap ... after saving and sanctifying ... disposal? Well laid aside ... for use of others?

Reposed ... dissed ...
 
If we automate all care and consciousness ... will all input terminate from this end of the mortal-immortal enigma?

What if you never understood there were 2 part to the barrier you came up against? Go figure how that came to light (land) as things settled ... after the primal chaos ...

Yet there remains some un caring about karen on ... for the sake of imperfections to amuse parts (that are beyond our understanding).With maturing some things come into sight ... not for the restless! Are shocking things like meme choose ... or the same thing differentiated by the ins and out's?Difficult to grasp until into a rest period as all that is left ... hated by those believing they are right when they denighed a great deal ... like the master of the thing that wasn't as he conceived ... thus shifted into the SAN's ... place for the disturbed, to be confined for a piece of that feeling of being out there ...

Sometimes taken as a sense of detachment ... thus separate words! Generated by AI if you noticed Aya working in the dark ... there is this novel about working in a Bear Cave as a clan ... unseen art and creation without sight?

The chore to pull some words together to desribe what people do not wish to know ... because they are embarassed with the transcending theme ... and inability to control themselves!
 
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