Snoopy Approaches Acts

[paradox3]

How then are we to live as Christians in a multi-faith world?

When I was growing up in Toronto in the 1950's and 60's, this wasn't even a question. Almost everyone around me was either a practicing Christian or a cultural one.

Some of my extended family members were "freethinkers" but very few people would speak openly about this.

I only met a handful of Jewish people throughout my entire childhood and adolescence. This changed when I went to University here.

It was later than my university years when I first met a Muslim or a Hindu. Or a Unitarian Universalist for that matter.

This city has evolved into a complete cultural and faith mosaic. Smaller towns and rural areas seem to be making this shift at a slower pace.

So now here we are. Members of churches which are shrinking in size but haven't vanished yet (if they ever will.)

In Paul's day there was an assumption that the church was going to grow and grow. We may even have thought this in my lifetime.

Some commentators have said that our world today is much like the world in Paul's day. In Ephesus, there were worshippers of Artemis. Jews. Jewish Christians. Gentile Christians.

We can name more faith groups now. That is one difference. Another difference is that we don't face persecution as Christians in this country.

Will pause on posting the Acts material for a few days. Anyone interested in discussing this?

Also I need to spend a few days with the text for the small group bible study I am facilitating this week.

 

[unsafe]

I am. Look at two adjacent countries.

You are welcome to look at all the countries you like ---I have no problem with what you think -your certainly entitled to your view -----that is for sure ---

It's quite clear that Godde favours diversity.

------So I say thanks for sharing your view ---hope others will share theirs ---

 

[BetteTheRed]

unsafe, if that's the best reply you can make to my input, just don't bother, and I won't bother.

I weary of pretending that western christian culture is some sort of cultural or spiritual apex. It clearly isn't. Scandinavian countries put all of us to shame when it comes to mental physical and spiritual well being and they are largely irreligious.

So P3 mentioning that Ephesus was a multi-cultural centre and that it seemed to be going okay is a normal segue into the modern world. And my ARGUMENT is that Godde appears to favour diversity in all manner of things - from the sheer volume of human-created religion (which yours is, as much as mine) to the diversity of beetles. Trust me, Godde does not think that only you, unsafe, have the "correct" opinion, because there isn't one.

 

[paradox3]

In my religious upbringing, I was taught that it was my job as a Christian to bring others to Christ. This was also known as sharing the good news or spreading the gospel.

I was questioning this by the time I was a teenager.

I was also taught that only Christians could expect salvation/ heaven/ an afterlife. This was also known as eternal life in Christ.

This I never did accept. My father identified as an atheist or freethinker and I always knew him to be a good man. If there was going to be a final judgement, I reasoned as a child, God would not condemn him for simply believing the wrong things. I just couldn't see it then and I still don't.

My dad always admired Evangelical Christians. If they really believe what they say about salvation, he figured, they would be monsters if they didn't try to get you on board.

 

[paradox3]

@unsafe Yes, I hope others will share their views.

Interesting to have the two of us and @BetteTheRed discussing this topic.

I think what we have here is a conservative Christian, a liberal Christian and a progressive Christian worldview. We pretty much cover the gamut.

 

[unsafe]

unsafe, if that's the best reply you can make to my input, just don't bother, and I won't bother.

So here is my replay to your input -----

You have your opinion and your belief in what you posted --but what you believe is not what I believe ----

God loves all people but when it comes to different Beliefs in other Religions ----God does not accept diversity----

God says this ------Now you won't agree nor believe what God says here ------but that is your right ---carry on with what you believe -----




So your belief is right for you ---and I have no idea how you interpret scripture -----

My belief is right for me ----- and I rely on the Holy Spirit to help me interpret scripture --as I cannot interpret scripture Spiritually with my Human intellect ------and I want to understand the SPIRITUAL Truth in Scripture and that is my right to do so -----

And I have never --ever said on this sight that my interpretation is the right one -------so where you get that from is beyond me ------you make the statement ---so show me the PROOF and I will address it -----

I know you hate AI and the Amp Bible as you have said on this sight ==== -

But I do think AI is spot on sometimes and this is one of those times ---

You won't agree with this either but that is Your right ------just like it is My right to agree accept it and follow it ---

AI

The Holy Spirit interprets scripture by helping believers understand and appropriate its truth, guiding them to spiritual wisdom that human understanding alone miss.

Through a process called illumination, the Spirit opens the minds and hearts of readers to the original meaning God intended, connecting the dots within the text and revealing spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.

While the Spirit does not create new meanings, He enables believers to receive the text as God's transforming message and apply it to their lives.

How the Holy Spirit Interprets Scripture

Inspiration and Illumination:The Spirit inspired the Bible's authors, ensuring the message was God's own.

Through illumination, the Spirit continues this work by helping readers understand this divinely authored word.

Guidance to Truth:The Spirit acts as a guide, helping believers understand and appropriate the spiritual wisdom contained in scripture.

Opening Understanding:The Spirit opens the eyes of believers, much like the rising sun, revealing the deeper meaning of God's Word.

Testifying to Jesus:The Spirit convinces believers that Jesus is who He said He is, revealing the truth of the Bible's message about Christ.

Revealing Spiritual Truths:The Spirit gives words and understanding not by human wisdom but by His own teaching, helping interpret spiritual truths for those who are spiritual.

Connecting the Dots:The Spirit helps believers see how different parts of God's Word connect, providing a comprehensive understanding of its message.

I say ----We can all believe what we want as God has given us the free will to do so here on this earth ----

 

[unsafe]

And I must sat this -----I am so grateful to paradox3 for allowing me to give my spiritual take on the Scriptures she decides to Post and present on her Bible Study Sight ----I know many --many here do not agree with what I post -----but I view her hard work and effort she puts into hosting a sight like as an opportunity for all to post their views on what they get out of their reading and understanding of the Scriptures she posts for the day .------

There are 2 lens to read Scripture from -----intellectual and Spiritual -and both can have a view -----but most choose not to post their view ------I have a passion ---a hunger and a thirst to see the Spiritual side of the Scripture ----and so i post from that Spiritual lens by the guidance of the Holy Spirit ----

We can learn from each other by posting our views on the Scripture ----that how i see it --and if we don't agree on something posted --we can say we don't agree and post why we don't agree ---

paradox3 --- has started a learning and study sight for God's word ---this is a really great thing for her to do -----just wish more would participate ---

 

[paradox3]

Yes a few more people posting would be nice @unsafe
But I still enjoy these threads.
I have tried reading and journalling my thoughts but I like this more.

 

[paradox3]

Acts 20:1-12

Bible Gateway passage: Acts 20:1-12 - New English Translation

Paul Travels Through Macedonia and Greece - After the disturbance had ended, Paul sent for the disciples, and after encouraging them and saying farewell, he left to go to Macedonia. After he had gone through those regions and spoken many words of encouragement to the believers there, he came to...

www.biblegateway.com

And Paul goes on his way again, traveling through Greece and Macedonia.

While in Troas, he speaks in an upstairs room until midnight. A young man named Eutychus goes to sleep and falls to his death from the window.

Paul goes down and puts his arms around him, declaring that he will live. Paul goes back upstairs; breaks bread & eats; and talks until dawn.

The boy is taken home alive and the people are comforted.

 

[paradox3]

Quite the talker, Paul is turning out to be.

Anyone relate to someone falling asleep in a long sermon? We have probably all seen it happen or even (ahem) done it ourselves.

I have yet to see anyone in church plunge to their death through a window. Good to know such a person can be brought back to life.

 

[unsafe]

so we see that after the uproar came to an end Paul encouraged His Disciples and left ----
set off to go to Macedonia where he encouraged the believers he came to Greece and stayed there 3 months ---

And we see another Plot was formed to cause him harm by the Jews as he was about to go to Syria ----

Poor Paul -----always trying to be stopped at almost every turn from preaching God's New Covenant ----

Paul returns to Macedonia ----- and takes with him -----

verse 4 AMP
4 He was accompanied by Sopater of Berea, the son of Pyrrhus, and by Aristarchus and Secundus of the Thessalonians, and by Gaius of Derbe, and Timothy, and Tychicus and Trophimus of Asia.

Paul sent these disciples on ahead and he met them at Troas where they stayed for 7 days

So the men are gathered together breaking bread on the first day of the week and Paul is speaking with them until midnight with lamps for light --and was intending on leaving the next day ----

I say ------Could this be where gathering of Sunday started ---as Sunday is seen as the first day of the week ??????

Now there was a young man sitting on the window sill named Eutychus (“Lucky”) which was up 3 stories and he falls asleep after trying to stay awake and falls down 3 stories to the ground and was picked up dead -----

i say ----I have personally witnessed people asleep while the Preacher is delivering their sermon ----maybe they find the church setting peaceful ??----maybe the Sermon is boring to them ?? could be they had a late night ??? ---I have never actually fallen asleep myself but have felt drowsy in church at times -
For me when the Minister starts going of in tangents ---instead of staying focused on the Message they are trying to get across that is when I get disinterested and want to get up and leave ----or when the Minister starts spouting out false Doctrine that goes against the Scripture that is when I truly leave ---
Like one Minister comparing the Holy Spirit to tupperweare ---and went on a tangent about tupperwear -out the door I want to go ---or fall asleep so I don't hear them ------

Paul goes down throws himself on the boy and says ---“Do not be troubled, because he is alive.

Paul goes back upstairs --breaks bread and talks with them until daybreak and then leaves ----and the boy who fell is taken home alive and they are greatly comforted and encouraged.

I say ----The Problem with Ministers is they have no idea how to hold the congregants attention ---if they keep speaking in a monotone voice and that can make one drowsy by itself --in my view -----

 

[paradox3]

Tupperware? Oh my goodness I have never heard that one.

Good point about the Sunday gathering @unsafe

And true enough, experiencing a sense of peace could explain falling asleep. Of course it could just be a boring or overly long sermon.

But I am thinking back to a stressful period in my life when I had trouble sleeping at night. I was actually rather sleep deprived because of it.

My children were still young enough for bedtime stories and I would nod off while reading to them. It always seemed to me that storytime gave me a sense of peace and relaxation that promoted sleep.

 

[unsafe]

Paul goes down throws himself on the boy and says ---“Do not be troubled, because he is alive.

This is Spiritually important to understand --the Holy Spirit gives Paul the gift of Faith ---

This Faith is different from Saving Faith ------this is gift of divine impartation to do extraordinary things and face disastrous trials that come their way ------- showing God's power and giving Him the Glory -----

This Gift of Faith is one of the 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit listed in Corinthians ----by Paul throwing himself on the Lad he is showing that he already believes the boy will live before he throws himself upon him --Paul is totally confident in God's power to show itself in victory as this Faith is unwavering and effective ---and will Edify the Church -----

This lad falling from 3 stories was no accident ---Folks ----this was in God's Divine Plan ---to Glorify Him to His Church -----with this resurrection

 

[chansen]

I'm sorry, there is a biblical story of a boy who listened to a sermon from a window sill three stories up, and the minister was so boring that the lad fell to his death, but didn't die after all because Paul jumped on him, and that's all God's plan?

What?

 

[paradox3]

The funniest part of the story might be that after losing the poor guy out the window at midnight, Paul continued speaking until dawn.

You gave us a pretty good recap @chansen.

The only thing is I don't see anything in the text about this all being God's plan. Either @unsafe made that up or she found it in the AMP bible.

 

[unsafe]

Is the gift of Faith relevant for today ----I believe it is as I do believe that all 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit are still in effect today ---

There are many who dispute this ---why because they take 1 Corinthians 13 verses 8 and 9 ----which says these gifts will cease -----and stop there ----

They need to continue on to verse 10 -----and do some research -----

verses 8-9 and 10 go together -----you cannot separate them ----10 finishes the context -----

1 Corinthians 13:8-10---AMPC
​

8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end]. As for prophecy the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away; as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].

9 For our knowledge is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect), and our prophecy (our teaching) is fragmentary (incomplete and imperfect).

10 when the complete and perfect (total) comes, the incomplete and imperfect will vanish away (become antiquated, void, and superseded).

It is very dangerous to take Scripture out of its context and preach it wrongly --

Strong's Concordance

the perfect state of all things, to be ushered in by the return of Christ from heaven, 1 Corinthians 13:10; of men,


So until the fullness has come the Gifts remain in place ---we are still in the Church age ---God is still trying to advance His Kingdom today --Folks ---


AI

1 Corinthians 13:10 is a biblical verse that states, "But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away".

The verse emphasizes that at the arrival of complete perfection, all present partial knowledge and temporary spiritual gifts will cease to be relevant and will be replaced by a full and complete understanding and experience of God's kingdom.


I say -----So all who think these gifts are no longer relevant are cheating their flock out of the proper understanding of the truth of Scripture ---

They are Wrongly dividing the word of Christ ------because they only see what they want to see -----or they are ignorant of their understanding of it -----

 

[unsafe]

and the minister was so boring that the lad fell to his death,

Well that could be one reason in today churches for sure ----there are many times I could have fallen from the church window because of Boring Sermons or False Doctrine being spewed out ----

====Leaving Folks ---

 

[paradox3]

This is interesting @unsafe.
Is 1 Corinthians 13 the source of the idea that those spiritual gifts ended with the Apostolic Age?

My take on this chapter has always been that life is impermanent but somehow love prevails past the grave.

Snoopy hosted a thread on 1 Corinthians earlier in the year.

 

[unsafe]

Is 1 Corinthians 13 the source of the idea that those spiritual gifts ended with the Apostolic Age?

Yes I believe it is cause the people are relying on the 2 verses the latter part of 8-9

Agape never fades ---God's Agape will always stay ---it will never pass away ----that is the first part of 8----

Last last part of 8 says ----

1 Corinthians 13:8-10---AMPC​

8 Love never fails [never fades out or becomes obsolete or comes to an end].

As for prophecy the gift of interpreting the divine will and purpose), it will be fulfilled and pass away;

as for tongues, they will be destroyed and cease;

as for knowledge, it will pass away [it will lose its value and be superseded by truth].

So the people are stopping there and concluding that when the Apostle die these will cease to exist -----but verse 10 clarifies this as to when they cease -----

We are still trying to bring people to Christ today --this is the church age still so the 9 gifts of the Spirit have to be still in working order --they have not ceased as many people believe ----

They cease when the fullness of Christ comes ---as there will no need for these gifts ---the saints will have their Resurrected bodies and the unbelievers--- their spirits and souls will be in hell ----separated from God ----

Personally----this is my view here ----------- I believe the 9 gifts of the Spirit will be used during the 7 year Tribulation by the 12 tribes of Israel as they go about Preaching the Good News to all the unbelievers left here going through this horror ----they are sent out to preach all over this world ---so the gift of tongues has to be still in place as do the other 8 gifts -----to bring people to Christ before Jesus comes back to judge ----the 12 tribes have to be able to speak in the language that can be understood when they are preaching to different countries all over this world ===that only makes sense ----

Just adding this
AI Overview


Yes, some Christians, known as
cessationists, use 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 to argue that certain spiritual gifts, particularly the “sign gifts” like tongues and prophecy, ceased after the apostolic age,

 

[paradox3]

1 Corinthians 13:8 isn't necessarily about God's love in particular. Not if the entire chapter is a treatise on the way of love in our lives.

Verses 1-8(a) are often read at weddings. It was part of our wedding ceremony. But I believe it is a mistake to think romantic love is being singled out here.

I read the whole chapter at my dad's funeral. It was completely fitting for my agnostic father.

The chapter is a masterpiece of writing IMO. Like any good piece of art, there are many interpretations.