The Joys of John

[paradox3]

I would agree that scripture can be used to support a wide variety of personal convictions.

 

[Mendalla]

I would agree that scripture can be used to support a wide variety of personal convictions.

Which, for me, is what makes it interesting and spiritual. It is not a book that tells, but shows, allowing us to draw our own conclusions from it.

I also question the use of the term "unbelief". If we are absolutely honest, everyone believes something. It might be a set of moral principles or something, not necessarily anything supernatural or metaphysical. So there are really no "unbelievers" unless you take a narrow view of looking at whether someone believes in a specific something (e.g. believes in God). So to my eye, accepting and examining that diversity, questioning people to learn rather than to tear down, is a more productive approach to belief that respects the existence of a diversity of beliefs.

 

[unsafe]

Does the spirit (wind) not go where where it wants according do John 3:8?

Thanks for quoting this scripture here Waterfall ---as this scripture has been abused and misinterpreted by many ----this is a perfect example of how Minister and people can twist scripture to suit their own agenda and want to be Belief -----by not looking at the context of what Jesus is talking about here -----

This is the Scripture in Context

3 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.

2 ;He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

I say ------This is what the Context of this scripture is about ----the works of the Holy Spirit in a person who is Born again --------this has nothing to do with the Holy Spirit blowing on everyone all over the place as many would like to think ------

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.

4 ;“How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

I say ----
Jesus talks about being Born again of water and the Spirit ------

Again this is talking about the Operation of the Spirit IN the person who is Born Again ----it is like the wind you don't see the wind by you fell the effects of the wind ---

and so it is when a person Is Born Again of the Spirit ---you don't feel the Spirit entering but you see the effects of the Spirit in your Life ------


AI

John 3:8, "The wind blows wherever it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it is coming from or where it is going. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit," teaches that the Holy Spirit's work is like the wind – unseen but felt, sovereign and powerful, and cannot be fully explained or understood by human reasoning. Just as the wind's movements are mysterious, so too is the Spirit's work in creating new life in believers.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• The Wind as a Metaphor:
  The wind is used as a powerful metaphor to illustrate the mysterious and supernatural nature of being born again by the Spirit.
  
  
• • Unseen but Felt:
    The wind is invisible, but its effects are felt and heard, such as the rustling of leaves or the swaying of trees. Similarly, the work of the Holy Spirit is not always outwardly visible, but its effects can be observed in the transformed lives of believers.
    
  • Sovereign Action:
    The wind blows wherever it wants, demonstrating the sovereignty of God and the Holy Spirit.
    
  • Mysterious and Inexplicable:
    The wind's origins and destination are unknown, just as the precise manner in which the Spirit works in a person's life is not always fully understood.
    
  • Transformation and New Life:
    Being "born of the Spirit" refers to the new spiritual life given by the Holy Spirit, a transformative experience that is beyond human comprehension.
    

In essence, John 3:8 emphasizes the power and mysterious nature of God's work through the Holy Spirit, highlighting the fact that salvation is a gift that is not earned or controlled by human effort.

 

[unsafe]

I also question the use of the term "unbelief".

Webster Dictionary for unbelief
refusal to accept something as true-----

Greek word for unbelief
Lexicon
apistia: Unbelief, faithlessness, lack of faith

In the New Testament, ἀπιστία is used to describe the condition of those who do not believe in the message of the Gospel or who doubt God's power and promises. It is often contrasted with faith (πίστις, pistis) and is seen as a hindrance to receiving God's blessings.

Context: The concept of ἀπιστία is significant in the New Testament, where it is often portrayed as a barrier to experiencing the fullness of God's work. This term appears in several key passages, illustrating the spiritual and practical implications of unbelief.

 

[paradox3]

No thoughts about the question of peer pressure in faith communities? It could have been an interesting discussion.

 

[unsafe]

No thoughts about the question of peer pressure in faith communities?

I think there is --peer pressure in all Faith Communities ----as they are all driven by man --not God and they exert pressure on their people to conform to their religious practices----like you have to join that Church in order to vote or have a say in what goes on in that faith community ---or the person may feel they are not comfortable in expressing heir doubts or ask questions about what the beliefs of that Faith community as they may have fear of being rejected or judged from that faith community ----the person may feel pressure from their faith community to avoid certain people or certain behaviours that that faith community sees as unfit -----

 

[paradox3]

John 12:44-50

Bible Gateway passage: John 12:44-50 - New English Translation

Jesus’ Final Public Words - But Jesus shouted out, “The one who believes in me does not believe in me, but in the one who sent me, and the one who sees me sees the one who sent me. I have come as a light into the world, so that everyone who believes in me should not remain in darkness. If anyone...

www.biblegateway.com

Jesus shouts out his final public words.

He reiterates that he is the light of the world and that he has been given his authority by God.

He has not come to judge the world but to save it. Judgement will come on the last day.

 

[paradox3]

Snoopy's Snappy Review,:
A magnificent little speech which sums up the Book of Signs.

Next up we have the Book of Glory.

 

[Mendalla]

This is interesting from a Trinitarian standpoint because Jesus seems to be clearly separating himself from the Father here. He is come to save the world, the Father is the one who will judge it, basically. And "The one who believes in me does not believe in me, but in the one who sent me, 45 and the one who sees me sees the one who sent me." Which sounds rather more like the famous Buddhist finger than Jesus claiming divinity.

Short version: If I point at the moon, are you supposed to look at my finger or the moon? The Buddha is the finger, Enlightenment is the Moon. Borg also used it in reference to the Bible, with the Bible as the finger and God as the Moon. Jesus is the finger, the Father is the Moon.

 

[unsafe]

For me these last few verses are an appeal for people to believe in Jesus and the one who sent Him ----and to warn the people that judgment is coming to those who reject Him ----

The first 2 line here shows -----I and the Father are one -----
AMPC
44 But Jesus loudly declared, The one who believes in Me does not [only] believe in and trust in and rely on Me, but [in believing in Me he believes] in Him Who sent Me.

45 And whoever sees Me sees Him Who sent Me.

I say --so if you reject Jesus then your rejecting the one who sent Him also ---

Jesus has come as light into this world and all who believe in -adhere to and trust in Him will no longer be in the dark -----

I say ---my Spiritual view on this light and dark -------this is referring to our Spiritual condition or state ---as we are born with a sin nature which has separated us from God so this is the Darkened condition we are in until we believe in the One who came as a light into this world and is the only one who can shine a light on our darkened condition and free us from this sin nature we are born with ------

Verse 46 --Jesus didn't come to condemn the world but to save it -----

I say ------His chief motive was preach the Good News of Salvation and to bring back God's Blessings

Verse 48 ===hard teaching here for people to hear but here it is --can be upsetting for some ----

48 Anyone who rejects Me and persistently sets Me at naught, refusing to accept My teachings, has his judge [however]; for the [very] message that I have spoken will itself judge and convict him at the last day.

I say ----So this is saying we in our unbelief and rejection judges and convicts itself on the last day -----we choose to believe or remain in unbelief --- --no one to blame but our choice ----

The last 2 verses speak for themselves ---AMPC

49 This is because I have never spoken on My own authority or of My own accord or as self-appointed, but the Father Who sent Me has Himself given Me orders [concerning] what to say and what to tell.

50 And I know that His commandment is (means) eternal life. So whatever I speak, I am saying [exactly] what My Father has told Me to say and in accordance with His instructions.

I say -----Jesus did nothing on His own ----He did and Spoke His Father's will not His will -----

 

[paradox3]

Thanks @unsafe. Snoopy is ready to move along to the Book of Glory but was waiting for you to check in on today's reading.

John: The Book of Glory
Chapters 13 to 20

We come now to the very familiar narrative of the death and resurrection of Jesus. We encounter it in all four Gospels but the details vary considerably.

Some of the material in this section is unique to John. Here's what stands out for me:

Just before the Passover feast, Jesus knows his time has come. Loving his disciples until the very end, he washes their feet.

Jesus promises to send another advocate to be with them forever --- the Spirit of Truth.

After the crucifixion, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus remove the body of Jesus from the cross and place it in a new tomb.

Mary Magdalene comes to the tomb alone and discovers the stone rolled away. She runs to tell Simon Peter and the other disciple Jesus loved.

Jesus appears to Mary Magdalene and she mistakes him for the gardener. Later he appears to the disciples but Thomas is missing. Thomas doubts but sees Jesus on his next appearance 8 days later.

Jesus responds, "Blessed are the people who have not seen and yet believed" (20:29)

 

[paradox3]

Does anything stand out for you in John's accounting of the story?

 

[BetteTheRed]

I have just tonight finished a study of Mark. No resurrection, only an empty tomb. What is the good news in that?

What is the good news/"gospel" of John?

 

[BetteTheRed]

So, my conclusion from the end of Mark: no trinitarian ideas, only one death declaration (my god why have you forsaken me), no resurrection appearances.

And in keeping with the lovely musical, Godspell, the good news is truly hippie-dippieish. Cultivate a created family of loving friends. Try to extend that love out into your world. Tragedy might come from this but love might prevail.

What do we think is John's final/precise gospel/good news/message for us?

 

[paradox3]

What do we think is John's final/precise gospel/good news/message for us?

The divine nature of Jesus and the importance of believing this to be so.

 

[paradox3]

John 21

Bible Gateway passage: John 21 - New English Translation

Jesus’ Appearance to the Disciples in Galilee - After this Jesus revealed himself again to the disciples by the Sea of Tiberias. Now this is how he did so. Simon Peter, Thomas (called Didymus), Nathanael (who was from Cana in Galilee), the sons of Zebedee, and two other disciples of his were...

www.biblegateway.com

Here we are at the final chapter of John's Gospel. Many scholars believe it to be an addition to the original manuscript.

Jesus appears to the disciples who are fishing. They catch nothing until Jesus tells them to let down their nets on the other side of the boat. They comply with this instruction and pull in 153 fish!

The disciples don't recognize Jesus immediately but they share a breakfast of bread and broiled fish.

Jesus asks Peter if he loves Him and tells Peter to feed His sheep as evidence of this love.

Jesus prophecies the death of Peter but indicates He wants the beloved disciple to live until He returns.

 

[Mendalla]

So, a carpenter is better at fishing than the disciples. some of whom were actual fishermen. No, that's not my only takeaway but it is the funniest one.

 

[paradox3]

153 is a multiple of 3 and has some interesting properties we looked at a few years ago.

This might be neither here nor there.

 

[Mendalla]

I have read discussion about the ending before but forget if it was here. Basically, the last few verses seem to suggest that the writer of John was the "disciple whom Jesus loved" discussed in the preceding verses. Interesting take since it puts the author of the latest canonical Gospel at the scene of a post-Resurrection event.

24 This is the disciple who testifies about these things and has written these things, and we know that his testimony is true. 25 There are many other things that Jesus did. If every one of them were written down,[bm] I suppose the whole world[bn] would not have room for the books that would be written.[

 

[paradox3]

My last minister liked the theory that Mary Magdalene was the disciple Jesus loved.