The Joys of John

[GordW]

NOt as commentary or interpretation but as Art I share this, a piece off one of my favorite Christmas albums growing up:

 

[unsafe]

Could it be that Grace and Truth build on the Law of Moses and provide a more mature view of God? Maybe this is the author's intention.

AI

No, according to John 1:17, the law was given through Moses, while grace and truth came through Jesus Christ, suggesting they are distinct and not built upon each other.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• The Law of Moses:
  The Law, or Mosaic Law, refers to the commandments and regulations given by God to the Israelites through Moses, as outlined in the Old Testament.
  
  
• Grace and Truth:
  In the New Testament, especially in John 1:17, "grace and truth" are presented as coming through Jesus Christ, not through the Law of Moses.
  
  
• Distinct but Related:
  While the Law of Moses and the concept of grace and truth are distinct, they are not necessarily in opposition. The Law served as a guide for righteous living and revealed human sifulness, while grace and truth, embodied in Jesus, offer redemption and a new way of living

I say ----The law was a Tutor until Grace showed up then the law was made of no effect ----

Galatians 3:24
New King James Version
Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[unsafe]

This is interesting

AI Overview
Learn more
Here are 10 key differences between law and grace, emphasizing their contrasting approaches to salvation and human relationship with God:

Focus	Demands and rules	Gift and mercy
Source	External, often seen as a set of rules to follow	Internal, a free gift from God
Outcome	Condemnation and inability to meet standards	Redemption and forgiveness
Relationship	Based on performance and obedience	Based on faith and God's initiative
Motivation	Fear of punishment and striving to earn favor	Love and gratitude for God's provision
Power	Cannot save or empower to obey	Empowers to live a life pleasing to God
Approach	"Do this and you will live"	"It is done"
Nature	Perfect, but imperfect humans cannot keep it	Perfect, but imperfect humans can receive it
Emphasis	Condemnation and revealing sin	Atonement and redemption from sin
Purpose	To reveal sin and show the need for a Savior	To offer salvation and empower believers

 

[paradox3]

John 1: 19-28

Bible Gateway passage: John 1:19-28 - New English Translation

The Testimony of John the Baptist - Now this was John’s testimony when the Jewish leaders sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” He confessed—he did not deny but confessed—“I am not the Christ!” So they asked him, “Then who are you? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am...

www.biblegateway.com

The Jewish leaders have sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to question John the Baptist. He declares he is the voice of one crying in the wilderness (a reference to Isaiah 40:3)

John is baptizing in the Jordon River and the greater One is coming.

 

[paradox3]

Anyone know how John made the leap from ritual Jewish immersion in the mikveh to baptism in the river?

 

[unsafe]

Anyone know how John made the leap from ritual Jewish immersion in the mikveh to baptism in the river?

The Mikveh immersion was a ceremonial cleansing for outward purification in a pool of water -----women after Menstruation -------Men after sexual discharge -----after a dead body was touched ----etc
Leviticus 15 -----

From Strong's

The Hebrew word "mikvah" primarily refers to a collection or gathering of water. It is used in the context of a physical body of water, such as a pool or reservoir, and metaphorically to denote hope or expectation. In the Hebrew Bible, "mikvah" is often associated with ritual purification, where it signifies a pool of water used for ceremonial cleansing.

GOOD QUESTION parodax3_______So why did John the Baptise urn to a River for Baptism ---instead of a POOL of water --

I say -----does the River have a Spiritual meaning ----?

Interesting Read
AI says it does ----

In a spiritual context, rivers are often seen as symbols of life, transformation, and the flow of energy, representing the cycle of life, purification, and the passage of time.

Here's a more detailed look at the spiritual significance of rivers:

• Life and Vitality:
  Rivers are a source of life, providing water for sustenance and symbolizing the flow of energy and vitality.
  
  
• Transformation and Change:
  The constant movement and flow of a river can represent the dynamic nature of life and the transformative power of change.
  
  
• Purification and Cleansing:
  In many cultures, rivers are associated with purification and cleansing, both physically and spiritually.
  
  
• Spiritual Connection:
  Rivers can be seen as a connection to the divine, with some traditions believing that rivers harbor spirits or are a path to the sacred.
  
  
• Symbol of the Divine:
  In some religious contexts, rivers, like the "River of Life" in the book of Revelation, are seen as a representation of God's life-giving presence.
  
• Path and Journey:
  Rivers can symbolize a path or journey, both literal and metaphorical, representing the voyage of life and the need to adapt and flow with the current.

 

[Mendalla]

It's hard to tell since we don't have much documentation for John beyond the NT and related documents (non-canonical stuff) and (I think) Josephus. Some suggest he was an Essene but that's not explicit anywhere that I have heard of.

John's speech about "make straight the way of the Lord" always gets "Prepare Ye The Way of The Lord" from Godspell echoing in my head, even though I know it's based on the Matthew version of the story.

 

[paradox3]

There is speculation that both John and Jesus were loosely associated with the Essenes. John, like Jesus, called for repentance and had a band of disciples associated with him

I have never seen Godspell @Mendalla

The hymn that immediately came to my mind was VU18: There's a Voice in the Wilderness

 

[Mendalla]

I have never seen Godspell @Mendalla

A friend's church (Calvary United in Kitchener) had a minister with a theater background so they did some plays. One of their productions was Godspell. My friend was on makeup (a hobby of his) for that show, I think. He acted in one of the others I went to. I have never seen a professional production or the film, though.

 

[paradox3]

Rev Jeffrey Dale is another such minister with a theatrical background. He is known to @BetteTheRed

 

[Waterfall]

The Israelites were baptized by Moses in the Sea of Edom ( Red Sea) as they left Egypt around 1500 BC, according to 1Corinthians 10:1-2.
And while Jews would baptize many times, Christians would later say that you only need to do it once.

 

[paradox3]

The Israelites were baptized by Moses in the Sea of Edom ( Red Sea) as they left Egypt around 1500 BC, according to 1Corinthians 10:1-2.
And while Jews would baptize many times, Christians would later say that you only need to do it once.

Do you think Moses and the Israelites believed they were being baptized when they crossed the Red Sea?

The Corinthians passage reads to me like an effort to find foreshadowing in the OT.

 

[unsafe]

So here we see John being approached by the Jewish hierarchy asking who he is ---and he quickly confessed as to who he was Not ---so he didn't try to puff himself up by claiming he was more than he really was -----

This is important for us today ---as many Christians feel that they are all that and look down on unbelievers -----

John says
23 He said, “I am the voice of one shouting in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”

So John is fulfilling an Old Testament Prophecy made by Isaiah ----So the Jewish people would have been aware of this prophecy by isaiah --the VOICE is bringing awareness of the WORD ---and the straight way is the making of a Path to the incoming Christ ----

So the people who are coming to John to be baptised have had their hardened hearts changed to be receptive to the Word and are willing to admit they are unclean and want to Repent of their worldly ways ---getting themselves ready to accept jesus as their Lord and Saviour and be Baptised by the Holy Spirit

This is important as God is always pulling on our heart to come back to Him ---but we are not always willing to receive that pull--- and that is on us

 

[Waterfall]

Do you think Moses and the Israelites believed they were being baptized when they crossed the Red Sea?

The Corinthians passage reads to me like an effort to find foreshadowing in the OT.

Your last statement makes more sense to me.

 

[unsafe]

The Israelites were baptized by Moses in the Sea of Edom ( Red Sea) as they left Egypt around 1500 BC, according to 1Corinthians 10:1-2.
And while Jews would baptize many times, Christians would later say that you only need to do it once.

Just to clarify -----I don't think they were Baptised by Moses ----they were baptised into Moses -----the Scripture says ---

The Amplified Bible -----says this about it

1 Corinthians 10:2​

2;And all [of them] were baptized into Moses [into his safekeeping as their leader] in the cloud and in the sea;------

I say -----God provided their protection by them Faithfully Following Moses who was God Appointed

You are so right ----- the Jews were Baptised many times to outwardly Purify themselves -and dedicate themselves to God so they could commune with God ----this Baptism was a symbolic act ---

Today there is only One Baptism needed which cleanses you Spiritually inwardly for all time and you are able to commune with God anytime ---if one accepts this Baptism of the Holy Spirit ---

 

[paradox3]

John 1:29-34

Bible Gateway passage: John 1:29-34 - New English Translation

On the next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is the one about whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who is greater than I am, because he existed before me.’ I did not recognize him, but I came baptizing with water so...

www.biblegateway.com

The next day, John sees Jesus and declares him the be the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.

The gospel writer does not actually say John baptized Jesus but it is probably implied. John testifies that he saw the Spirit descending on Jesus like a dove from heaven. And Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit.

This man, says John, is the Chosen One of God.

 

[paradox3]

How did John the Baptist recognize Jesus, I wonder? And how did he know about these two lofty titles?

In Luke's Gospel, John recognizes Jesus & leaps for joy when the two babies are still in their mothers' wombs.

 

[Mendalla]

The implication would seem to be John knew someone special was coming so when the someone came, he naturally (supernaturally?) knew. Presumably whatever prophecy from God he was following when he spoke earlier about one who is to follow allowed him to recognize the one he prophesied. It's really one of the more mythological elements if you're reading it that way.

 

[paradox3]

All four Gospels give us John the Baptist as the link between Isaiah and Jesus. John the Baptist's role as a herald is significant.

In tomorrow's reading we will see two of John's disciples transfer their loyalty to Jesus. This seems like further emphasis on the link between John and Jesus.

 

[Mendalla]

In tomorrow's reading we will see two of John's disciples transfer their loyalty to Jesus.

Which kind of makes sense when you look at how John portrays himself as the herald declaring Jesus' coming. I almost wonder if John would expect his followers to move to Jesus. We shall see tomorrow.