Snoopy Considers 1 Corinthians

[Jaebius]

Wesley is reported to have called communion a "converting ordinance", meaning that encountering Christ at the table could be what leads one to faith. At any rate what right do we have to bar access to God's table? When giving an invitation I say that it is open to all who seek to follow the Way of Jesus. Many UCCan congregations would say the same

In an earlier decade many UCCan congregations were a bit more picky in that only confirmed members in good standing could partake at (usually quarterly) communion. Some have memories of the Elders visiting their lists and leaving a communion token or card to attest to that status.

Yes Gord, Wesley's view is a reminder of the transformative potential of encountering Christ at the Table.

Communion is a sacrament, a beautiful expression of Christian faith.

Your point about not barring access to God's Table is well taken. The Table is God's, and it's open to all who follow Jesus. Our role as leaders is to extend that invitation with love, welcoming all who are drawn to the Table.

The spirit of Communion is one of inclusivity, and we must reflect that in our approach

 

[Jaebius]

When I was growing up in the United Church, communion was a solemn affair with the elements being served to those sitting in the pews.

Children were not eligible until they confirmed their faith at age 13. I drifted away from church involvement at that time and did not confirm.

When I returned to church in my late thirties, I was quite shocked to hear that all were welcome at the Table. And to see kids being included.

Historically, there have been various practices regarding who may partake in communion and at what age, linked to confirmation as a sign of an individual's understanding.

I understand your surprise. This inclusive approach reflects a growing recognition that God's grace is for everyone. Welcoming all to the Table emphasizes that communion is about God's love.

Including children is a beautiful expression of the belief that faith is nurtured within the community. It's a reminder that we're all continually growing in our faith

 

[Mystic]

"Do not let anyone eat or drink of your eucharist except those who have been baptized in the name of the Lord. For the statement of the Lord applies here also: Do not give to dogs [slang for "Gentiles"] what is holy (Teaching of the Twelve Apostle [chapter 9 in 95 AD)."

 

[Jaebius]

Well I don't know how that works ----as you have to have Faith in Christ first and coming to the table can't bring one to Christ ---it has to be faith that brings you to Christ ---so that to me makes no sense -----you either have Faith in Christ before you get to the Table or you don't ---just my view ----and you can't be brought to Faith ----you receive the right Faith through the Word after God has changed your hardened heart to a receptive heart so Faith can be inbirthed in you through the hearing of the Word --God pursues us ---we don't pursue God --

We have no idea who is worthy or who isn't worthy in partaking of the Lords Supper ---only God does ----so it is not up to us to judge anyone taking part -----but the Scripture makes it clear that all should take note of themselves before they approach the table -----and Ministers should be speaking to their people about doing just that so they can be aware that there is consequences for going to the table in an unworthy manner ----

Without the Holy Spirit indwelling in you ---you belong to this world not God ------and your drinking from the cup of Satan ----until you receive Christ ---all according to Scripture ---

See the Lord's Table as a place where God's grace is freely given and where people can meet Christ in a personal way.

Wesley called Communion a "converting ordinance" because it's a chance for people to experience the grace of Christ, which leads them to faith. The Table is a place where faith is kindled. It's a mystery that we must embrace with humility.

You're right that we can't judge who's worthy to partake in the Lord's Supper. The role of us Christian leaders is to encourage repentance, reminding our congregation of the sacredness of the act.

Communion is an expression of God's love. It's a reminder that we're all on a journey, and that God's grace is available to all who seek it

 

[unsafe]

And to see kids being included.

Ya --I hear you on that subject -----I wondered about that myself and talked with a Holy Spirit indwelled Minister friend about it ----he felt that God deems children innocent as they have no idea what sin is nor do they understand the concept of God imputing sin on them for their evil deeds ---so God gives them a grace period and deems the children innocent ---and he said he doesn't stop the children from coming to the table ---he leaves it up to the parents ----

For me not sure -----

 

[Jaebius]

"Do not let anyone eat or drink of your eucharist except those who have been baptized in the name of the Lord. For the statement of the Lord applies here also: Do not give to dogs [slang for "Gentiles"] what is holy (Teaching of the Twelve Apostle [chapter 9 in 95 AD)."

The Lord's Table is a place of grace, where all who seek to follow Jesus are invited to experience his love. Our understanding of God's grace and inclusion continues to evolve.

Jesus' ministry was marked by his inclusivity and his willingness to reach out to those on the margins. He extended His love to all who sought him. We must reflect that same spirit of welcome and openness

 

[Jaebius]

Ya --I hear you on that subject -----I wondered about that myself and talked with a Holy Spirit indwelled Minister friend about it ----he felt that God deems children innocent as they have no idea what sin is nor do they understand the concept of God imputing sin on them for their evil deeds ---so God gives them a grace period and deems the children innocent ---and he said he doesn't stop the children from coming to the table ---he leaves it up to the parents ----

For me not sure -----

Believe that all people are in need of salvation through Christ. That includes children.

Welcoming them to the Lord's Table is an expression that God's grace is available to all. It provides a chance for them to be part of a church from a young age. This participation lays the foundation for a lifelong journey of faith.

We church leaders must help children to understand Communion and the importance of faith in Christ. We must lead them to trust in the Holy Spirit

 

[unsafe]

The Lord's Table is a place of grace, where all who seek to follow Jesus are invited to experience his love. Our understanding of God's grace and inclusion continues to evolve.

Jesus' ministry was marked by his inclusivity and his willingness to reach out to those on the margins. He extended His love to all who sought him. We must reflect that same spirit of welcome and openness

Jaebius -- ---are you double minded ---which is means unstable in your stance -----


this is your quote from post 318 above

Understand your point unsafe that simply gaining knowledge isn't enough without a true change of the heart.

Communion is a sacrament through which we are reminded of Christ's sacrifice for us. Those who partake of it must do so with a heart that's in submission to God

I say --your remark on God gives grace to everyone ----he gives Common Grace to everyone ---but not Saving Grace and when you go to the table ---you are going to honor God who dwells in you ---who is Christ -who was flogged --beaten and battered and bruised and shed His Blood to free you from sin and death -giving you eternal life

God does not throw Jesus who is full of Grace to everyone -----you have to Receive God's grace who is Jesus through His Faith ---Grace comes through faith ---if you do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit you are away from God -----Jesus said your father is the devil -----God's table is Holy and if your Spirit is not Holy then you should not come to the table as you are not worthy -----and that is what Paul is teaching in these chapters ----

Jesus said your either for me or against me ---there is no inbetween their Jaebius --your either worthy or your not worthy ----to come to the table ---you can come to the table unworthy and the people won't know ----But God Will Know and He is the only one who Counts to Know --and then it is up to Him to decide what to do -------

If Ministers don't inform their people ---they won't know ------and watch out caused Ministers gets Judged more harshly in their end -----God gives Ministers a warning

James 3:1 AMPC
​

3 Not many [of you] should become teachers my brethren, for you know that we [teachers] will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity [than other people; thus we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation].

If I were a Minister I would be telling my people to Examine themselves before approaching the Lord;s Table -----

 

[Jaebius]

Jaebius -- ---are you double minded ---which is means unstable in your stance -----


this is your quote from post 318 above

Understand your point unsafe that simply gaining knowledge isn't enough without a true change of the heart.

Communion is a sacrament through which we are reminded of Christ's sacrifice for us. Those who partake of it must do so with a heart that's in submission to God

I say --your remark on God gives grace to everyone ----he gives Common Grace to everyone ---but not Saving Grace and when you go to the table ---you are going to honor God who dwells in you ---who is Christ -who was flogged --beaten and battered and bruised and shed His Blood to free you from sin and death -giving you eternal life

God does not throw Jesus who is full of Grace to everyone -----you have to Receive God's grace who is Jesus through His Faith ---Grace comes through faith ---if you do not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit you are away from God -----Jesus said your father is the devil -----God's table is Holy and if your Spirit is not Holy then you should not come to the table as you are not worthy -----and that is what Paul is teaching in these chapters ----

Jesus said your either for me or against me ---there is no inbetween their Jaebius --your either worthy or your not worthy ----to come to the table ---you can come to the table unworthy and the people won't know ----But God Will Know and He is the only one who Counts to Know --and then it is up to Him to decide what to do -------

If Ministers don't inform their people ---they won't know ------and watch out caused Ministers gets Judged more harshly in their end -----God gives Ministers a warning

James 3:1 AMPC​

​

3 Not many [of you] should become teachers my brethren, for you know that we [teachers] will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity [than other people; thus we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation].

If I were a Minister I would be telling my people to Examine themselves before approaching the Lord;s Table -----

unsafe, it seems you object to these statements:

• We must reflect Jesus' spirit of welcome and openness.
• Knowledge is not enough without a true change of the heart.
• Through Communion, we're reminded of Christ's sacrifice for us.
• Those who partake in Communion must do so with a heart that's in submission to God.

Is that correct? I stand behind every one of those statements

 

[Mystic]

the argument for the baptism requirement for Communion is that since "The Teaching of the 12 Apostles" IDidache) reflects first century practice, it is the best evidence for apostolic conditions for participation. Similarly, wine, not grape juice, is a symbol of blood; so to respect Jesus' symbolism, Anglicans don't allow the grape juice substitute, despite concerns for alcoholics.

 

[BetteTheRed]

When giving an invitation I say that it is open to all who seek to follow the Way of Jesus. Many UCCan congregations would say the same

Our invitation is totally open without mention of seeking to follow the way of Jesus. I don't know how much it matters, this little distinction, but we have embraced a new member of our congregation, who has converted from Islam, and I think our totally open table meant something special to him.

I confess that being "disinvited" when I attend a Catholic mass (which I do, because my maternal family is Catholic and I have Catholic friends) is very offensive to me.

 

[BetteTheRed]

And because I am a total heathen, but I do know the way to behave in an RCC service, I always take communion. Godde damn me, apparently...

 

[Jaebius]

the argument for the baptism requirement for Communion is that since "The Teaching of the 12 Apostles" IDidache) reflects first century practice, it is the best evidence for apostolic conditions for participation. Similarly, wine, not grape juice, is a symbol of blood; so to respect Jesus' symbolism, Anglicans don't allow the grape juice substitute, despite concerns for alcoholics.

Feel it's possible to get way too absorbed in exactly what the elements are. Personally, I've taken Communion at which everything from wine to grape drink was used. All were effective. What matters is God's action through the elements. He works to strengthen faith

 

[Mystic]

Feel it's possible to get way too absorbed in exactly what the elements are. Personally, I've taken Communion at which everything from wine to grape drink was used. All were effective. What matters is God's action through the elements. He works to strengthen faith

How can you disrespect Jessus' symbolism of wine for blood, when grape juice, kool-aid, and raspberry juice are not authorized to bear this symbolism?
Who calls the shots--you or Jesus?

 

[Jaebius]

How can you disrespect Jessus' symbolism of wine for blood, when grape juice, kool-aid, and raspberry juice are not authorized to bear this symbolism?
Who calls the shots--you or Jesus?

The essence of Communion lies in the act of remembering Christ's love and sacrifice, rather than in whatever specific elements get used.

It is, of course, Jesus who calls the shots, and what he values is the heart and intent behind our actions

 

[paradox3]

Similarly, wine, not grape juice, is a symbol of blood; so to respect Jesus' symbolism, Anglicans don't allow the grape juice substitute, despite concerns for alcoholics.

In that case, the Anglicans are not being very inclusive. What do they expect those struggling with Alcohol Use Disorder to do? Take the bread only? Skip worship services altogether?

Now that I think about it, I was at a small Anglican gathering a few years ago where they passed around a common cup. I just said the appropriate words and passed it to the next person. Even before COVID, the hygiene aspect bothered me.

 

[paradox3]

Our invitation is totally open without mention of seeking to follow the way of Jesus. I don't know how much it matters, this little distinction, but we have embraced a new member of our congregation, who has converted from Islam, and I think our totally open table meant something special to him.

This is beautiful.

I confess that being "disinvited" when I attend a Catholic mass (which I do, because my maternal family is Catholic and I have Catholic friends) is very offensive to me.

Was wondering if this would come up in our discussion. I have only attended mass a few times but I am happy to do the crossed arms thing and receive a blessing. To me, doing it this way it feels respectful of their tradition.

 

[paradox3]

And because I am a total heathen, but I do know the way to behave in an RCC service, I always take communion. Godde damn me, apparently...

Do you do the other Catholic things? Dip your fingers in the holy water and make the sign of the cross as you enter the sanctuary? Genuflect (I think it's to Mary) as you enter the pew? Do you kneel throughout the service when they do?

I am curious Bette, not trying to be argumentative.

I behave like a Protestant visitor and don't do any of those things. Apparently this is totally fine with them.

My daughter attended a funeral mass recently for a member of her partner's family. She was worried about sticking out like a sore thumb but I assured her they would be okay with it. She went up for a blessing from the priest and she told me she found it very meaningful.

My take on it was her partner's Catholic family would appreciate her knowing what to do as a Protestant attending mass. It seemed to go this way..

 

[paradox3]

How can you disrespect Jessus' symbolism of wine for blood, when grape juice, kool-aid, and raspberry juice are not authorized to bear this symbolism?
Who calls the shots--you or Jesus?

Now this seems argumentative to me. Unnecessarily so.

There are many different interpretations and traditions surrounding the Lord's Table. Surely they can be discussed politely.

I will hold 1 Corinthians 12 until this discussion wraps up.

 

[Mystic]

Now this seems argumentative to me. Unnecessarily so.

There are many different interpretations and traditions surrounding the Lord's Table. Surely they can be discussed politely.

No, the NT offers only 1 interpretation--that real wine was used!
Admittedly, grape juice unfortunately needed to be used in most of the Communion services I've participated in.
But Communion was far more real for me in services that followed Jesus and Paul's example of using wine.