God the All-terrible!

[Carolla]

Today I was looking through an old photo album that belonged to my mom. In the back of it, I found a programme for the "Closing Exercises" from Ottawa Ladies College - June 15, 1942. The words of the first hymn took me aback ... Interesting look at historical hymnary & religious language, so thought I would just share ...

1 God the All-terrible! King, who ordainest
Great winds Thy clarion, the lightnings Thy sword;
Show forth Thy pity on high where Thou reignest,
Give to us peace in our time, O Lord.

2 God the Omnipotent, Mighty Avenger,
Watching invisible, judging unheard,
Save us in mercy, O save us from danger;
Give to us peace in our time, O Lord.

2 God the All-merciful! Earth hath forsaken
Thy ways of blessedness, slighted Thy word;
Bid not Thy wrath in its terrors awaken;
Give to us peace in our time, O Lord.

3 God the All-righteous One! man hath defied thee;
Yet to eternity standeth thy word,
Falsehood and wrong shall not tarry beside thee;
Give to us peace in our time, O Lord.

4 So shall Thy children with thankful devotion,
Laud Him who saved them from peril abhorred;
Singing in chorus, from ocean to ocean,
Peace to the nations, and praise to the Lord.

Amen.

The Hymnal: Published by the authority of the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in the U.S.A., 1895
​

And the closing hymn - apparently a private school classic at end of term ...

Lord, behold us with Thy blessing
Once again assembled here;
Onward be our footsteps pressing
In Thy love, and faith, and fear;
Still protect us, still protect us
By Thy presence ever near.

Bless Thou all our days of leisure;
Help us selfish lures to flee;
Sanctify our every pleasure;
Pure and blameless may it be;
May our gladness,may our gladness
Draw us evermore to thee.

By Thy kindly influence cherish
All the good we here have gained;
May all taint of evil perish
By Thy mightier power restrained;
Seek we ever, seek we ever
Knowledge pure and love unfeigned.

Let Thy father-hand be shielding
All who here shall meet no more;
May their seed-time past be yielding
Year by year a richer store;
Those returning, those returning
Make more faithful than before.​

And of course finishing up with God Save the King.


Personally, I'm glad to see our language has evolved to less frightening images of God.

 

[Luce NDs]

Should fear encompass the queen so she could be persuaded to use mental values other than emotions alone in her primal leadership? Plagiarized from Dan Goleman ... in his texts about Emotional Intelligence .. a two part course that got me in dutch with an old professor who I accused of teaching only 1/2 the course as he hated isolate thinkers and knowledge .. at least beyond his centralize concern for only what he knew ... and several seniors in the class found it isolating!

As a purely amateur I'm unlicensed or certified to state such things due to higher licence's-ness ... so ne tol me I should be silent ... although I was invited there to share my experiences with big industrious concerns in time ... that's "ans"! And the "an's" do roll bi ... as Hebrew classifications of time which is technically all over the place ...

 

[Luce NDs]

This leaves me as rejected from institutions of intelligence and wisdom ... at loose ends ... a fringe personality cultivating psyche ... a dynamic indeterminate as it can spontaneously alter in flight ... F(lightness, or dark levity)!

How can one get to be so satirical (sometimes called cynical)? Just by observing the surroundings ... an environmental mess?

 

[Luce NDs]

Heavy footprints? That's my impressions ... about san - s an icon of integral ... even though Greek phi-lo-sophie used the Σ just for divers-itty! A small thing ... present thinking would rather disperse with wee auld things ...thus the dispersion of points ... many small dotters ...bos unes?

 

[Luce NDs]

Then someone came up with the intuitional concept of aD'mist or cloudy kinetics that few could see as it required some abstraction ... a darkshade of grey?

 

[Mendalla]

Personally, I'm glad to see our language has evolved to less frightening images of God.

Sadly, I think that there are some who would still largely agree with those images of God. And, for that matter, there were people in that time who did not (e.g. my Unitarian and Universalist forebears). It is not so much that the language has evolved so much as more of the mainstream religious culture has evolved to finally accept and promote the less frightening view. But, alas, not all.

 

[revjohn]

While attention needs to be paid to the way past culture has influenced the images and language used to describe God, modern images and descriptions are no less culture bound. If yesterday's images are failures due to cultural influence then today's images are failures for the same reason.

I don't avoid historic images or language. Not because I like them better but rather because they do not allow me to be comfortable with the God they point to.

Whatever image of God one is drawn to I hope it wouldn't be something domesticated and/or predictable otherwise we who are called to do as God does will settle for being dull and predictable.

 

[Mendalla]

Whatever image of God one is drawn to I hope it wouldn't be something domesticated and/or predictable otherwise we who are called to do as God does will settle for being dull and predictable.

One interesting aspect of being a pantheist is that I am called to revere all of existence, not just the nice bits. Sharks, viruses, volcanoes, earthquakes are all terrible in their way, but also necessary parts of that Existence. So I would never call my "God" "all terrible" even though there are parts of that Divinity that are terrible in their way at times. At the same time, it is hardly a dull, predictable God.

 

[revjohn]

So I would never call my "God" "all terrible" even though there are parts of that Divinity that are terrible in their way at times. At the same time, it is hardly a dull, predictable God.

"all-terrible" is a hold-over from an earlier day.

Aweful, meaning full of awe has become awful. Once the word meant inspiring awe (technically still does), now we limit it to extremely bad.

Terrible is commonly used to mean horrible. It can also be used to mean formidably great.

I suspect the problem is less with the words being used and more our deficient vocabulary.

 

[Delightful Life]

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!"
--macabee, militant greek art critic

"ruf!"
--Jesus' dog after being asked how it was walking through the desert for a month

"is that a spleen i see before me?"
--Longinus

"right, left, up, up, out, left, right, left, start, reset, in..."
--jesus explaining how to get g_d mode

"more than just mild"
--pontius pilate

 

[chansen]

"all-terrible" is a hold-over from an earlier day.

Aweful, meaning full of awe has become awful. Once the word meant inspiring awe (technically still does), now we limit it to extremely bad.

Terrible is commonly used to mean horrible. It can also be used to mean formidably great.

Not in English. In English, we say "terrific". In French, "terrible" can be either good or bad, depending on the context.

http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/22837/origins-of-the-word-terrible

That hymn looks suspiciously like it was written in English.

But "terrible" does mean to "fill with fear". People with more biblical knowledge than me can quote the places that tell people to fear God.

I suspect the problem is less with the words being used and more our deficient vocabulary.

Sometimes the problem lies with the theology.

 

[Carolla]

There is another version I see online - with the wording changed to "God the Omnipotent" rather than God the all-terrible.

One commentator speaks of it as a powerful and stirring plea for peace, written during a time of war. http://www.reformedworship.org/article/september-1988/hymn-month

So while context is helpful, it's not something I'd really like to sing today.

 

[revjohn]

Not in English. In English, we say "terrific". In French, "terrible" can be either good or bad, depending on the context.

Which is true for terrific which also includes the definition, "to terrify"
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/terrific?s=t

That hymn looks suspiciously like it was written in English.

Aye, t'was. In 1842. Nothing changes eh? Gay, an English word appearing in the same era meant homosexual then just as it does now right?

But "terrible" does mean to "fill with fear". People with more biblical knowledge than me can quote the places that tell people to fear God.

And people with more biblical knowledge than you would know that the intent of the passage may or may not rest in the literal understanding of the translation.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is theis just awe some or awesome about gae people may just be happy people and thus queer as to separate eM from those scared of everything as directed so as to be contained by their present gods and god's representatives of yesteryear.

Could it be that the fears of yesteryear direct present thoughts towards where we are going in directives ... and thus it goes' ð ... or if you don't know old icons ... you couldn't see how IT evolved as occluded matter on immaterial fears from time as pest if time passing bothers yah. This is a fear used in present advertising ... so people refuse to accept aging with dignity ... and thus we hate old things thunk into those fears like har poons ...

Gaw'dy lawdy ... it is fearsum to fear everything ... a neigh integral of what totals in gawdy favour? What I like this site of immaterial domain for ... dispersing scattered thoughts that slunk off in fear of they Ma-eight be seen as happy when authorities like nothing better than to see their subjects paen'd ... if ventilated they could see the inner spaces ... some used calibre ... to measure the insides of divided souls ... things declared unseen as phantoms on vitreous humor ... glassy-I'd people struck with awe at the complexity that brutes would break down to simply nothing ... thus authoritative Runes!

You've heard of Excalibre a sword used by a supposed god's representative about which we might be wrong as directed that knowledge is evil ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Can such things slip through an non existential domain described as nothing by Thomas More and thus you can go nowhere with that fear as ye gods have stuffed yere head with immaterial fears ... the way it is ... or so it appears not ... an incarnation of isn'tz!

I made that last word up from abstract forms ... dark things ...

 

[Luce NDs]

In face of god do many mortals flee ... and thus the Þ' ithchii sense of stickiness as the Shadow f(ollos) as hermeneutic abstraction ...

 

[revjohn]

Sometimes the problem lies with the theology.

Agreed. Some times the theology of a hymn is problematic.

Christian hymnody is not impervious to the surrounding culture and it does, in twists and turns, challenge or capitulate to the contemporary tides.

Describing God as the All-terrible does not track for me initially simply because I rarely combine the two terms unless, of course, I am attempting to describe the all of something as terrible.

What I am unaware of, at present, is whether or not this designation of God as the All-terrible was common among hymns of the day or if it represents a unique construction. It is not a designation I have heard before.

At any rate why not try the novel approach and investigate the hymn for what message it seeks to impart? Perhaps that helps us to discern what the writer intends by the designation.

Five stanzas. The first four of which end with the same line, "Give to us peace in our time, O Lord." The final stanza ends with, "Peace to the nations, and praise to the Lord."

It is an anti-war hymn. I'll leave it to you to decide whether that is a good or a bad thing.

So, English author writing an anti-war hymn in 1842. What war is the author wanting peace from? Best bet, historically speaking, appears to be the first Anglo-Afghan war. Not knowing when exactly in 1842 the hymn was written I would hazard a guess that it was shortly after the destruction of Elphinstone's army (roughly 16, 500 souls). Of that army only 9 survived, 8 were taken prisoner and one alone managed to retreat safely to Jalalabad.

The horrors invoked in the Hymn God the All-terrible are, in order of appearance: danger, an awakening of God's slumbering wrath, falsehood, wrong and peril abhorred (which I gather is peril ignored).

The God appealed to within the Hymn is God the All-Terrible and that God is defined by pity, watching, judging and saving. Titles applied to God (apart from the All-Terrible) are: Omnipotent, Mighty Avenger, All Merciful and All Righteous.

Speaking personally. I have no clue how Henry F Chorley (the author of the hymn) intended anyone to hear "God the All-Terrible). I certainly don't think that he is saying God is the most terrible or horrible. I think that the safest and strongest argument is for God being the most formidable.

Is that a frightening concept? That someone or something might be formidable?

I suppose it could be if you ever found yourself on the wrong side of that formidable someone or something. Mighty Avenger might also raise alarm bells though I doubt that was the intent given the structure of the stanza.

I don't find anything particularly frightening about the God described in the Private School's closing hymn either.

 

[Luce NDs]

Hymnody is a way of common folk expressing what they are not allowed to know ... none-the-less they feel something that is like nothing they ever experienced before ... and harmoni thus is expressed althought the authorities would prefer silence ... the uproar disturbs their peace the morning after whining IT up ...

 

[Hermann]

The lyrics of some hymns are quite impossible!

Sure, they can be taken metaphorically, and I do. But, unfortunately, the langauge of many of them is meant to be taken literally. I think the grossest of them will fall into disuse, simply because they are so gross, and newer hymns will take their place. I am a particular fan of Linnea Good and her hymns--and not just because she is a sunny Okanagan girl.

 

[Mendalla]

The lyrics of some hymns are quite impossible!

Sure, they can be taken metaphorically, and I do. But, unfortunately, the langauge of many of them is meant to be taken literally. I think the grossest of them will fall into disuse, simply because they are so gross, and newer hymns will take their place. I am a particular fan of Linnea Good and her hymns--and not just because she is a sunny Okanagan girl.

How are you on revamping the lyrics but using the old tunes (where, of course, the hymn is in the Public Domain as many of the "classics" are)? It is a common thing in UU'ism (sometimes using mildly tweaked versions of the original words, sometimes writing whole new lyrics) and I see Gretta Vosper is doing it as well at West Hill. On Sunday, we sang "Amazing Light" a humanist "hymn" (not sure they would like the term) based on the tune of "Amazing Grace" so apparently even secular humanists do it. New hymns are good and we have some good UU hymn writers, but some of those old tunes are worth keeping even if the words are not. I must look up some of Linnea Good's work. I have been hearing about her on WC and WC2 for years but still don't really know any of her songs. If they seem compatible with UU'ism, I might want to introduce them to my congregation.