WhyCzar
Connect The Dots
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Their
Are we still able to debate fairly?
- Thread starter Mrs.Anteater
- Start date
Welcome to Wondercafe2!
A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!
- Status
Northwind
Stationary nomad.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Many organizations, the Catholic Church among them, merely move sexual predators rather than fire them. It's shameful. (I have other words that aren't fit to print). The IRS system was the perfect environment for predators - a closed community, religious views about sex and celibacy that invite secrecy, a sense they were doing god's work. Etc.
I met a man who came within a hair's breath from being declared a dangerous offender. He had learned that it was better to be a troublemaker/fighter when he was at residential school rather than be sexually assaulted. When he left that place he wasn't sure how old he was. He couldn't read.
I met a man who came within a hair's breath from being declared a dangerous offender. He had learned that it was better to be a troublemaker/fighter when he was at residential school rather than be sexually assaulted. When he left that place he wasn't sure how old he was. He couldn't read.
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Peter Bryce - Wikipedia
Canadians have an appalling history of ignoring our responsibility to our indigenous siblings.
Canadians have an appalling history of ignoring our responsibility to our indigenous siblings.
WhyCzar
Connect The Dots
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Their
Imagine that having previously attended elementary school on his reserve, at age 15 He entered the Kamloops Indian Residential School (KIRS) for the 1949-50 school year. Despite his dislike of the food – “watery potatoes and over-boiled vegetables” – and, upon arriving, obliged to wash his hair in coal oil, he later described his time there as formative for his life’s successes. (a “Kindly” Brother told him the coal oil was to “kill any lice.” The very clean-living 15 year old noted the ordeal made him “a little upset.”)
Imagine He wrote: “I was already missing the pies and cakes my big sisters used to make. But there was plenty of milk and butter from the dairy herd and slabs of good bread. I soon learned that the thickness of your slice was a status symbol. A thicker crust meant you had a girlfriend who was a big wheel in the kitchen.” There is no mention of hunger, let alone starvation.
Imagine that about conditions in the classroom, He wrote: “…the staff did put a definite priority on giving us an education. The classrooms were big, well-lit rooms, with desks as modern as any you could have found on the west side of Vancouver in 1949.”
“And the teachers were just as good.” Imagine He went on to describe the commitment of the nuns to the students’ education, and added, “…and most of us responded.”
Imagine that the most notable observation He made about his time at Kamloops school was that: “… another motivation took root in the back of my mind: that somehow, by getting educated, I would be able to do something to help my people. I don’t remember the first time that idea came to me, but it probably sprouted sometime during the year that I spent at Kamloops Indian Residential School.”
Imagine He enjoyed playing sports at the school – baseball, basketball and hockey – admitting in his book that he was not very good at any of them, performing better in his classroom studies. Still, He took pleasure in the sporting achievements of his teammates and wrote proudly about the school’s Holstein cattle winning blue ribbons at the Armstrong Fair, and Sister Anne Mary’s “superb” choir “cleaning up” at the annual local choral festival.
Imagine, directly and indirectly, He made it clear that his days at the KIRS were happy ones. Imagine that today, his reports of happy times at any of the schools are met with angry demands for retraction and apology.
Imagine that Twenty-plus years ago, He was not afraid to write, “I was never abused, and I never heard of anyone else who was mistreated at the Kamloops school.” Imagine that He did not fear writing positively about the priests, nuns and brothers: “… they meant well by us, they genuinely cared about us, and they all did their duty by us as they saw fit.”
Imagine that having lived since 1933 in a region comprising several Indian reserves, having attended a reserve day school and the KIRS, and having risen to lofty federal positions of power, a member of parliament – especially an Indigenous one – gets to know all the leadership people in the region he represents, including mayors, chiefs, elders and knowledge keepers.
Imagine that He was a very good member of parliament. Good MPs talk to people, listen to people, help people, exchange stories, learn about the “knowings” of the elders, knowledge keepers, former residential school students and their families.
Imagine that He was there. Imagine that He was well connected. Imagine that He never experienced, never witnessed, and never heard about the “horrors” we’re hearing about today.
Imagine that 72 plus years since he attended the KIRS, chiefs, knowledge keepers and others are presenting sometimes detailed though second-hand stories about events that He never heard a word about. Why today? Why not then?
Imagine that his story included his own experience at the KIRS and covered many of his years in public life.
Born in 1933, Marchand’s life story, chronicled in his autobiography Breaking Trail, was one of accomplishment, the pursuit of happiness, and service to Canada.
@Northwind
We can only imagine, if he were still alive, what he would say about the IRS revelations.
Imagine He wrote: “I was already missing the pies and cakes my big sisters used to make. But there was plenty of milk and butter from the dairy herd and slabs of good bread. I soon learned that the thickness of your slice was a status symbol. A thicker crust meant you had a girlfriend who was a big wheel in the kitchen.” There is no mention of hunger, let alone starvation.
Imagine that about conditions in the classroom, He wrote: “…the staff did put a definite priority on giving us an education. The classrooms were big, well-lit rooms, with desks as modern as any you could have found on the west side of Vancouver in 1949.”
“And the teachers were just as good.” Imagine He went on to describe the commitment of the nuns to the students’ education, and added, “…and most of us responded.”
Imagine that the most notable observation He made about his time at Kamloops school was that: “… another motivation took root in the back of my mind: that somehow, by getting educated, I would be able to do something to help my people. I don’t remember the first time that idea came to me, but it probably sprouted sometime during the year that I spent at Kamloops Indian Residential School.”
Imagine He enjoyed playing sports at the school – baseball, basketball and hockey – admitting in his book that he was not very good at any of them, performing better in his classroom studies. Still, He took pleasure in the sporting achievements of his teammates and wrote proudly about the school’s Holstein cattle winning blue ribbons at the Armstrong Fair, and Sister Anne Mary’s “superb” choir “cleaning up” at the annual local choral festival.
Imagine, directly and indirectly, He made it clear that his days at the KIRS were happy ones. Imagine that today, his reports of happy times at any of the schools are met with angry demands for retraction and apology.
Imagine that Twenty-plus years ago, He was not afraid to write, “I was never abused, and I never heard of anyone else who was mistreated at the Kamloops school.” Imagine that He did not fear writing positively about the priests, nuns and brothers: “… they meant well by us, they genuinely cared about us, and they all did their duty by us as they saw fit.”
Imagine that having lived since 1933 in a region comprising several Indian reserves, having attended a reserve day school and the KIRS, and having risen to lofty federal positions of power, a member of parliament – especially an Indigenous one – gets to know all the leadership people in the region he represents, including mayors, chiefs, elders and knowledge keepers.
Imagine that He was a very good member of parliament. Good MPs talk to people, listen to people, help people, exchange stories, learn about the “knowings” of the elders, knowledge keepers, former residential school students and their families.
Imagine that He was there. Imagine that He was well connected. Imagine that He never experienced, never witnessed, and never heard about the “horrors” we’re hearing about today.
Imagine that 72 plus years since he attended the KIRS, chiefs, knowledge keepers and others are presenting sometimes detailed though second-hand stories about events that He never heard a word about. Why today? Why not then?
Imagine that his story included his own experience at the KIRS and covered many of his years in public life.
Born in 1933, Marchand’s life story, chronicled in his autobiography Breaking Trail, was one of accomplishment, the pursuit of happiness, and service to Canada.
@Northwind
We can only imagine, if he were still alive, what he would say about the IRS revelations.
Northwind
Stationary nomad.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
I've listened to at least two people who attended KIRS. They were sitting in the same room as I was. They attended in about the 60's. They were both abused. They were sent from Fort Nelson, BC to Kamloops. That's a 1,340 km distance or 14+ hour drive today.
My friend whose family attended reported they were abused. It was not a good experience for them. It was not a good education.
My friend whose family attended reported they were abused. It was not a good experience for them. It was not a good education.
Northwind
Stationary nomad.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
And those who succeed have protective factors such as teacher pleasing skills, the ability to be obedient, some natural intelligence, the ability to adapt, etc.
WhyCzar
Connect The Dots
- Pronouns
- They/Them/Their
I am totally in favor of the importance of educating people around residential school denialism.
"The sheer depth of what we lost in a short amount of time is hard to grasp," said Eshkawkogan, who was born and raised in Wikwemikong Unceded Territory and now works as the community's wellness coordinator. "I don't know if everybody sees that, because you have to know the culture and its beautiful intricacies."
I am totally opposed to legislation to criminalize residential school denialism.
"The sheer depth of what we lost in a short amount of time is hard to grasp," said Eshkawkogan, who was born and raised in Wikwemikong Unceded Territory and now works as the community's wellness coordinator. "I don't know if everybody sees that, because you have to know the culture and its beautiful intricacies."
I am totally opposed to legislation to criminalize residential school denialism.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
As I am sure not all Indiginous are the same?
Like they have different cultures and beliefs and spiritualities and Lifeways, despite Whitey trying to put them in an easily identifiable box?
That is another problem I see with CSJ (as it was invented and promoted by USA white wealthy people) -- I see too much of a kind of Paternalism or Smart Whitey knows better dear savages
Indiginous peoples are quite varied, as I have found oot in the past little while
Their various Lifeways are really cool
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Where and when did this neologism get invented? Who is promoting it? I am not up to speed on this as for the past few years there have been more important things to be concerned aboot for me
Their justice systems are varied accordingly to the different cultures. Much of it is towards a restorative goal I believe, for victim and accused.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
WhyCzar, you are very good at this
I thank you for being willing to communicate
And for helping see the intetchange between Truth and Opinion
Unlike some people, I am not calling CBC or the Tyee or you or the writers of the Graves book or the original anthropologist who found these sites of interest or the Tk̓emlúps te Secwépemc Chief to be "denialists"
I wonder why this happens? This thread itself...so many different possibilites as for why people go off the chaos end...
Could be spirits
Could be madness
Could be just human beings being who they are
Could be intentional human manipulation
Could be mass psychosis
I don't know
Last edited:
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Would you be willing to fundamentally change your worldview/metaphysics to be in Right Relations with them?
Become more Animist adjacient?
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Good researcher you"Pedophilia seems to flourish in isolation." - Waterfall
What Hockey Canada knew about sexual assault allegations ?
Scouts Canada kept 'confidential list' of pedophiles?
The earliest proof of Canada's Scouting movement maintaining records on pedophiles dates back 59 years to a letter in the United Church of Canada archives.
Over 250 Canadian school personnel accused of sexual offenses: report - National | Globalnews.ca
A new report says 252 current or former school personnel committed or were accused of committing offences of a sexual nature against 548 children over a five-year span.globalnews.ca
None of these stories are related to "mass graves" but they do further support @Waterfall supposition.
Also far too many in public school system
Also global networks
Lots of problems
I believe our justice system could learn from theirs.
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
Don't know what reality you are living in but I have seen lots of horrified reactions etc to this news.
Is it that you aren't seeing enough?
Or is it reactions that you aren't expecting?
Also remember there are a lot of problems in the world, lots to choose from, and lately we have been INUNDATED with problems? Pandemic, global weirding, Ukraine, Syria, global surveillance, etc etc etc?
And it never seems to stop lol
Delightful Life
M&M, Cascadian Lovers
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
So you wouldn't, in the name of stopping them to be oppressed, be willing to change in that way? I grok
It can be hard...also quite an alien metaphysics, with various spirits and helpers and such
It would certainly change our health care and economies
Restorative justice for SOME crimes might empty our jails and stop repeat offenders.
- Status