GENESIS: Snoopy's Short & Snappy Review

[unsafe]

God plants the tree of life here. He also plants the tree of knowledge of good and evil and forbids the people to eat from it.

What's up with this? Why is God acting like a trickster?

I don't think God is a trickster ----I think as God's Creation we ourselves make bad choices --I think we like to trick ourselves into thinking we know the best trees to pick from ----and the ones to stay away from ----when we should be picking from the ones we want to stay away from ----and leaving the ones we want to pick from ----

 

[unsafe]

Was it God's plan all along that Adam and Eve would be exiled from the Garden of Eden?

Actually it was a Blessing that God exiled them from the Garden as the tree of life was free for them to eat and the tree of life keeps you in your Spiritual state ----so if God had of left them in the Garden and they did decide to finally eat from the tree that was free for them to eat in the first place which was the Tree of Life ---their Sinful nature would not be able to be reversed ----so God had to get them away and keep them away from the Tree of Life so His backup plan could play out -----which was to sent His Son save His lost Human Creation ----

 

[Delightful Life]

a neat thing aboot the Fall is that it shows how really powerful humanity is

Able to with that simple act

Change all of God's Perfect Creation

(no wonder they become worried over the tower of babylon. Humanity has the potential to become as them--transhumanity built in to the Bible oh my)

And so it goes

(Mark Twain still has my fav interpretation)

Also it would seem, another interpretation, that the Fall could be one of those stories made to explain why something created by God could be imperfect?

Fascinating to see how far back these tales can be followed, even thru prehistory

 

[paradox3]

Good Morning and thanks to everyone who has joined our discussion. Here is Genesis 4.

Snoopy's Snappy Review. A sad tale

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 4 - New English Translation

The Story of Cain and Abel - Now the man was intimate with his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. Then she said, “I have created a man just as the LORD did!” Then she gave birth to his brother Abel. Abel took care of the flocks, while Cain cultivated the ground. At the...

www.biblegateway.com

Adam and Eve have had two sons and the humans are in trouble again. The eldest, Cain, is the farmer and Abel is the family's designated shepperd.

The brothers present offerings to God. God is especially pleased to receive the firstborn of Abel's flock. God is not pleased with Cain's offering. In a fit of jealousy, Cain slays Abel after enticing him out to a field.

Now, as one with seven siblings, Snoopy finds this to be an astonishing tale!

And, hello??? God??? What were You thinking favoring one of the brothers so clearly? Were You testing the people again?

Seems obvious enough these humans are going to need a few more of Your Commandments. Please tell them they shalt not covet and they shalt not murder.

The story ends with Cain being driven off the land and God placing a mark on him for protection. If anyone kills Cain, his death will be avenged sevenfold.

How sad for Adam and Eve! Now they have lost both of their sons. Eve was so happy when she gave birth. (Genesis 4:1)
Later they will have Seth.

By Snoopy

P.S. if you are interested in Cain's descendants, you can read some of the "begats" in this chapter.

 

[jimkenney12]

I like Daniel Quinn's interpretation in Ishmael. Abel represented the nomadic people of the Delta area in Sumer and Cain represented the lighter skinned farmers who came down out of Anatolia and pushed the nomads out of the area with force. It could be a story lamenting an historical shift. It was a shift from a culture that depended daily on the gifts of the land to a culture that could store excess food production. If so, it could be one of the oldest stories in the Bible. It was a shift from living with the land and other plants and animals to a culture that deliberately reshaped the land with their irrigation systems.

 

[Mystic]

Adam responds to God, "I was afraid because I was naked; and I hid myself (3:10)."
(1) Adam and Eve were created without clothing; so why are they now afraid because they are 'naked?'
Because they are repressing their guilt created by feeling nakedly exposed, and so, they can't consciously admit to this guilt.
(2) And why does God respond, 'Who told you that you were naked," when their nudity was evident to all?
The serpent never tells them this; so the only alternative to the who is that their conscience has been activated, creating a sense of shame.
(3) Adam and Eve hide because they are intolerant of criticism, and therefore feel compelled to defend themselves with a "yes, but."
(4) Neither Adam nor Eve can admit to being at fault; so they both pass the buck by projecting blame on someone else: Adam blames Eve and Eve blames the serpent (3:12-13).

(1)-(4) are neatly paralled by psychiatrist Scott Peck's identification of the psychodynamics of individual and group evil, even though he does not address the parallel principles in the story of Adam and Eve.

 

[Delightful Life]

Aaand if you think aboot it, Adam and Eve weren't the first sinners



Lucifer was



So here is God, who is perfect, everything created by God is perfect by definition...and then Lucifer has Pride (or in some interpretations asks too many questions lol)



Did Lucifer's Fall change All of Reality to be Imperfect?



If yes, did it happen all at once?



Or gradually?



Fun schtuff to think aboot

 

[Delightful Life]

I like Daniel Quinn's interpretation in Ishmael. Abel represented the nomadic people of the Delta area in Sumer and Cain represented the lighter skinned farmers who came down out of Anatolia and pushed the nomads out of the area with force. It could be a story lamenting an historical shift. It was a shift from a culture that depended daily on the gifts of the land to a culture that could store excess food production. If so, it could be one of the oldest stories in the Bible. It was a shift from living with the land and other plants and animals to a culture that deliberately reshaped the land with their irrigation systems.

I actually came across that interpretation thanks to a Jew :3

These tales are ANCIENT passing into prehistory

 

[paradox3]

Aaand if you think aboot it, Adam and Eve weren't the first sinners

Either they were sinners or they used their free will to embrace their full humanity. Cain, who murders Abel in a jealous rage, is more clearly a sinner IMO

Lucifer was

We haven't encountered Lucifer yet in Genesis unless you consider the serpent to represent the Evil One.

Fun schtuff to think aboot

It certainly is!

 

[unsafe]

And, hello??? God??? What were You thinking favoring one of the brothers so clearly? Were You testing the people again?

God didn't choose favorites here ------Able by Faith brought the better 0ffering before God -----his heart and motive was in the right place ---

Hebrews 11:4
Amplified Bible
By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which it was testified of him that he was righteous (upright, in right standing with God), and God testified by accepting his gifts.


There is no mention in any scripture that by Faith Cain brought his offering before God ===and after God rejected his offer Cain became jealous of his brother and showed anger not humbleness toward God ----so his heart was hardened and his motive was wrong from the beginning ----God knew what was in his heart before he brought his offering ----

Without the right Faith you can't please God -----


Cain Bible meaning ====interesting =======read all I just posted this part

Easton's Bible Dictionary - Cain​

Cain [N] [H] Cain - Smith's Bible Dictionary Online
a possession; a spear.

• The first-born son of Adam and Eve ( Genesis 4 ). He became a tiller of the ground, as his brother Abel followed the pursuits of pastoral life. He was "a sullen, self-willed, haughty, vindictive man; wanting the religious element in his character, and defiant even in his attitude towards God
• Cain's lack of right disposition toward Yahweh is shown by his behavior . Instead of humbling himself he gives signs of strong indignation at Yahweh's refusal to favor him.

 

[paradox3]

Can we set the interpretation of this text from Hebrews aside please?

Genesis doesn't actually say anything about the faith of Cain or Abel. It tells us they brought forth their offerings at the designated time.

 

[Mystic]

Can we set the interpretation of this text from Hebrews aside please?

Genesis doesn't actually say anything about the faith of Cain or Abel. It tells us they brought forth their offerings at the designated time.

Uh, no, we can't because the text in Genesis othewise provides no answer. The obvious inference is a difference in the 2 brothers' motivations for bringing their sacrifices. Since God is all-knowing and Cain proves himself a jealous murder, the interpretation in Hebrews is likely the correct one.

 

[BetteTheRed]

The obvious inference is a difference in the 2 brothers' motivations for bringing their sacrifices.

Another much more likely inference is referred to above by Jim. This part of the O/T seems to be a very ancient story that encapsulates some of the conflicts between hunter-gatherers/herders and agriculturalists.

 

[unsafe]

paradox3 said:
And, hello??? God??? What were You thinking favoring one of the brothers so clearly? Were You testing the people again?

What I was actually answering and showing was that you seem to be blaming God for using favoritism here ----
your Question ----God??? What were You thinking favoring one of the brothers so clearly?

and I was pointing out that He really wasn't thinking or showing favoritism ---it had to do with Faith ---right heart and right motive -----as to why God accepted one offering or the other it had nothing to do with God showing favoritism

 

[Mystic]

Another much more likely inference is referred to above by Jim. This part of the O/T seems to be a very ancient story that encapsulates some of the conflicts between hunter-gatherers/herders and agriculturalists.

What evidence can you cite for such conflicts in Israel's history?

 

[Delightful Life]

Another much more likely inference is referred to above by Jim. This part of the O/T seems to be a very ancient story that encapsulates some of the conflicts between hunter-gatherers/herders and agriculturalists.

Which would be an interpretation from outside of Genesis?

Which is what unsafe was doing as well?

Either they were sinners or they used their free will to embrace their full humanity. Cain, who murders Abel in a jealous rage, is more clearly a sinner IMO

If they embraced their full humanity, then that included pain in childbirth, being prudish at nakedness, etc?

We haven't encountered Lucifer yet in Genesis unless you consider the serpent to represent the Evil One.

I don't know where I get this from, but I always had the idear that Angels were much older than humanity?

Inneresting writing riffs:

Angels are a species from a previous universe and when God Lit the Light showed them already there, good Servants :3

Want a fun book aboot Genesis before humans? Go and read to Reign In Hell by Stephen Brust. Witty short novel on the War in Heaven.

ps pseudo political note: maybe the whole Garden of Eden idea is what fuxxored us Westerners by giving us a wrong relations metaphysics of Untouched Nature instead of what is more right relations of humanity is Nature and the right relation ones garden and caretake Nature (this also applies to pop nihilist ecologists who also think of Pristine Nature sans humans...)

 

[paradox3]

Which would be an interpretation from outside of Genesis?

Which is what unsafe was doing as well?

Yes. My thinking exactly.

I don't know where I get this from, but I always had the idear that Angels were much older than humanity?

Genesis seems to imply this. The angels are asked to guard the entrance to the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve are exiled.

God also uses the pronoun "we" which could possibly refer to God and the angels.

 

[paradox3]

Another much more likely inference is referred to above by Jim. This part of the O/T seems to be a very ancient story that encapsulates some of the conflicts between hunter-gatherers/herders and agriculturalists.

As Bob Dylan sang, the times they were a-changing.

An even simpler explanation for the offerings presented by Cain and Abel is that each brother gave from the fruits of his own labor.

Cain tended the land so was able to offer God the fruits of his harvest. As a shepherd, Cain was able to make a blood offering to God.

This does not take away from the reality of Cain going off the rails later. God even told him to do the right thing and cautioned him that sin was crouching at the door.

Why did God prefer the offering presented by Abel? We haven't considered this aspect of the story yet.

 

[paradox3]

Good morning and Happy Easter! Here is Genesis 5.

Snoopy's Snappy Review: Utterly boring.

Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 5 - New English Translation

From Adam to Noah - This is the record of the family line of Adam. When God created humankind, he made them in the likeness of God. He created them male and female; when they were created, he blessed them and named them “humankind.” When Adam had lived 130 years he fathered a son in his own...

www.biblegateway.com

Yawn! After all the excitement of Genesis 1 - 4, we arrive at a whole chapter of "begats". Yes, that's right. An entire chapter of them.

You can look it up if you would like to learn about the generations from Adam to Noah. The lineage is through Seth.

Noah's three sons are named Shem, Ham and Japheth. This gets important later.

Snoopy notes with interest that these ancient humans live for a very long time. Snoopy is aware that humans live longer than beagles, but he has never heard of lifespans like these ones!

 

[jimkenney12]

It is possible people then counted their sge in moons instead of years.

The genealogies in Matthew and Luke are boring and intriguing as well for their differences.

Abel's gift was more costly than Cain's gift.

From an ecological point of view, Abel's gift was a better ecological fit than Cain's gift. Proper shepherding enriches the soil and productivity. Irrigated farming can reduce soil productivity. Most crops take from the soil. At the time when this part of the story originated, the ancestors of the Hebrews probably noticed the differences between land used by shepherds and farmers.