Implications of the Biblical Interventionist God

[BetteTheRed]

Through people and ideas we meet we're given opportunity to become "Kingdom people".

I am coming to prefer the concept of "Kin-dom people". "Kings" and "kingdoms" imply a hierarchy, a top down system. "Kin-doms" are groups of people who want to live in a certain type of community, where all gifts and all creation are celebrated.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

I am coming to prefer the concept of "Kin-dom people". "Kings" and "kingdoms" imply a hierarchy, a top down system. "Kin-doms" are groups of people who want to live in a certain type of community, where all gifts and all creation are celebrated.

I get what you mean......
But, I'm happy to stick with Kingdom - if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for Pilgrim!..

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Loving our enemies does not mean liking them. It means caring about their well-being.

Sadly. It isn't very often acted upon. And sadly religions tends to breed mostly hatred.

And PilgrimsProgress. We have to be doing something/being there to or for a person, to be able to give up on them.

 

[Mendalla]

I get what you mean......
But, I'm happy to stick with Kingdom - if it's good enough for Jesus, it's good enough for Pilgrim!..

It is, though, an example of how the Biblical texts are really out of date for our age. Even contemporary monarchies rarely refer to themselves as "kingdoms" anymore due to most of them being (like your country and mine) constitutional monarchies rather than divine or absolute ones.

To be honest, few 20th-21st century Westerners even have any concept of what a "kingdom" truly means: A state where the king is literally the symbol of the nation and wields absolute authority. Where the king (usually, sometimes a ruling queen) can literally have people executed or imprisoned on their say-so, no trial necessary. Where the king's word is the law and criticizing the king is treason.

Thailand is one of the rare countries where a hereditary monarch still wields anywhere near that level of authority and even there, things are mostly controlled by either parliament or (after their frequent coups) the army.

The closest we have in the 21st century are authoritarian republics. Think Putin in Russia or Xi in China. That's what "king" means in context when you talk about "kingdom" in the Bible.

 

[Luce NDs]

It is, though, an example of how the Biblical texts are really out of date for our age. Even contemporary monarchies rarely refer to themselves as "kingdoms" anymore due to most of them being (like your country and mine) constitutional monarchies rather than divine or absolute ones.

To be honest, few 20th-21st century Westerners even have any concept of what a "kingdom" truly means: A state where the king is literally the symbol of the nation and wields absolute authority. Where the king (usually, sometimes a ruling queen) can literally have people executed or imprisoned on their say-so, no trial necessary. Where the king's word is the law and criticizing the king is treason.

Thailand is one of the rare countries where a hereditary monarch still wields anywhere near that level of authority and even there, things are mostly controlled by either parliament or (after their frequent coups) the army.

The closest we have in the 21st century are authoritarian republics. Think Putin in Russia or Xi in China. That's what "king" means in context when you talk about "kingdom" in the Bible.

Thus militant BS? Mire abstracts as the dirty flue ...

 

[Mystic]

I am coming to prefer the concept of "Kin-dom people". "Kings" and "kingdoms" imply a hierarchy, a top down system. "Kin-doms" are groups of people who want to live in a certain type of community, where all gifts and all creation are celebrated.

The Aramaic "malchut" translated "kingdom" actually means "reign" and as such is the right term for serving God and experiencing His guidance.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

It is, though, an example of how the Biblical texts are really out of date for our age. Even contemporary monarchies rarely refer to themselves as "kingdoms" anymore due to most of them being (like your country and mine) constitutional monarchies rather than divine or absolute ones.

To be honest, few 20th-21st century Westerners even have any concept of what a "kingdom" truly means: A state where the king is literally the symbol of the nation and wields absolute authority. Where the king (usually, sometimes a ruling queen) can literally have people executed or imprisoned on their say-so, no trial necessary. Where the king's word is the law and criticizing the king is treason.

Thailand is one of the rare countries where a hereditary monarch still wields anywhere near that level of authority and even there, things are mostly controlled by either parliament or (after their frequent coups) the army.

The closest we have in the 21st century are authoritarian republics. Think Putin in Russia or Xi in China. That's what "king" means in context when you talk about "kingdom" in the Bible.

On the other hand, it depends on how you read the Bible. You can read it literally, and go by the literal meaning of words - in which case I agree with what you say.
But if you have a less literal lens when you read the Bible - as I do - you look for the essence of what Jesus meant. When you do that, you understand that God's Kingdom is a wonderful concept.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

Sadly. It isn't very often acted upon. And sadly religions tends to breed mostly hatred.

And PilgrimsProgress. We have to be doing something/being there to or for a person, to be able to give up on them.

I tend to think you're putting the cart before the horse. If you have a lot of hate in your psyche you'll grab onto anything that acts as a channel for that hate. Racism, homophobia, Fundamentalist religious notions of evil, etc, etc.

 

[Luce NDs]

I tend to think you're putting the cart before the horse. If you have a lot of hate in your psyche you'll grab onto anything that acts as a channel for that hate. Racism, homophobia, Fundamentalist religious notions of evil, etc, etc.

Then doesn't religion hate knowledge from the genesis thereof? There are bad branches it appears ...

To be cognizant of such things is despicable to those that would wish to keep the worlds people stupefied ... some say "WOKE" as the item Eris cis ...

 

[Mendalla]

On the other hand, it depends on how you read the Bible. You can read it literally, and go by the literal meaning of words - in which case I agree with what you say.
But if you have a less literal lens when you read the Bible - as I do - you look for the essence of what Jesus meant. When you do that, you understand that God's Kingdom is a wonderful concept.

OTOH, even a non-literal approach to the text needs to start with asking what the writer meant, the context of the writing, and how did they understand the text they wrote. Otherwise, you can read anything into it and one starts to wonder why you even bother with the Bible.

I think it is fairly clear that God was seen at least partly in monarchical terms. More just than Earthly monarchs, perhaps, but still a monarch who was very much in charge and whose laws were to be obeyed, even if there might be debate over the exact meaning and practice of the law.

 

[paradox3]

I am not sure God was necessarily presented in monarchical terms. Wasn't the contrast with human kingdoms really the point? God's imperial rule will be different, in other words.

 

[Mendalla]

I am not sure God was necessarily presented in monarchical terms. Wasn't the contrast with human kingdoms really the point? God's imperial rule will be different, in other words.

"Kingdom" alone is a monarchical term. It means the realm of a king. And a more just monarch is still a monarch. I doubt those using that language, including Jesus, were thinking in terms of a consultative form of government, just a king who is truly right and just and will be righteous in how he treats his people, vs. despots like some of the emperors.

 

[BetteTheRed]

just a king who is truly right and just and will be righteous in how he treats his people,

What a dear old, late, friend of mine used to refer to as BDFL - Benevolent Dictator For Life.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

Methinks the Bible is not an encyclopedia, not a dictionary, not an historical account - it's LITERATURE!

Like all literature, it seeks to make sense of this world and our place in it.

I sometimes despair that, as children, we love fairytales - but when that adult rational brain gets going, we lose the ability to understand stories, poetry , myths. Do you really think that little kids don't know that the wolf isn't grandma????

As a minister friend of mine, who has devoted his life to helping the homeless, those with addictions and mental illnesses once said to me, "The trouble with theology today, it's become from the neck up - and has lost its soul, its passion, its heart. So many call themselves Christians, but they don't think like Jesus. Jesus explained himself in stories, in parables, in LITERATURE. We're content with being Pharisees, not Followers of the Way".

 

[Pavlos Maros]

I tend to think you're putting the cart before the horse.

I assume you mean me, So in what way am I going against the natural or normally effective sequence of events? And what are those events?
And if you don't mean me, how is what I said going against the natural or normally effective sequence of events?

If you have a lot of hate in your psyche you'll grab onto anything that acts as a channel for that hate.

That is if you have hate to begin with, which I don't. And the main way you get to hate, is via religion.

Racism, Homophobia.

Which are bred by religious indoctrination.
Family is assumed to be the core of society, but sadly family is superseded by it's religious affiliation. Overtly religious societies have institutional hatred.

 

[Luce NDs]

OTOH, even a non-literal approach to the text needs to start with asking what the writer meant, the context of the writing, and how did they understand the text they wrote. Otherwise, you can read anything into it and one starts to wonder why you even bother with the Bible.

I think it is fairly clear that God was seen at least partly in monarchical terms. More just than Earthly monarchs, perhaps, but still a monarch who was very much in charge and whose laws were to be obeyed, even if there might be debate over the exact meaning and practice of the law.

I like CS Lewis' impression ... wasteland ... and the challenge is to make something of what the previous dense sol did to it ... generates conflict! Thus psyche in Din! That's Nietzsche's chaos ... reality! Should we lighten up?

 

[Luce NDs]

What a dear old, late, friend of mine used to refer to as BDFL - Benevolent Dictator For Life.

Benevolence??? Indicate a mortal sol that'd go for that in a world sporting conflict!

 

[Luce NDs]

Methinks the Bible is not an encyclopedia, not a dictionary, not an historical account - it's LITERATURE!

Like all literature, it seeks to make sense of this world and our place in it.

I sometimes despair that, as children, we love fairytales - but when that adult rational brain gets going, we lose the ability to understand stories, poetry , myths. Do you really think that little kids don't know that the wolf isn't grandma????

As a minister friend of mine, who has devoted his life to helping the homeless, those with addictions and mental illnesses once said to me, "The trouble with theology today, it's become from the neck up - and has lost its soul, its passion, its heart. So many call themselves Christians, but they don't think like Jesus. Jesus explained himself in stories, in parables, in LITERATURE. We're content with being Pharisees, not Followers of the Way".

There is an old adage that says to present information simply ... so the simplicity in great literature that hide the complexity as sophisticated as possible ... some say a mother theme as a dark pool that is source of much ... hubris accepts nothing of sophistication! The human it Arian nemesis ... all adrift?

Floating case books ...

 

[Luce NDs]

It was said by PM: "the main way you get to hate, is via religion."

Can this be instituted to keep the turbulence stirred as a brae in storm mode? Thus edifice ... similar to fascia ... (thin casing)! Such casings have various uses ... even Haggis ... Hagias? The mother of myth ... that's Ur-IA ... sometime bare!

It all means nothing unless it strikes your sensoria! Some don't got nun ... dear things ... often cloistered and confined ... like that blonde one with braids ... something to grasp when she stirs the great unknown ... take note, journal as mute! It'll go round later ...

 

[Mendalla]

Which are bred by religious indoctrination.
Family is assumed to be the core of society, but sadly family is superseded by it's religious affiliation. Overtly religious societies have institutional hatred.

Whether that is true is very dependent on your religious background. And family definitely still matters. I was raised in a religious household active in a church and the values I learned were to love all people. In the UCCan debate over ordaining openly gay persons as ministers, only one brother was actively opposed to their ordination, and he is now in a more conservative denomination. My parents and even my grandfather (who had been an ordained minister for 60+ years at that point) were fine with it and even spoke against the motion to block their ordination. Given that my brother and I were raised in the same household by the same people, I am not sure you can blame "religious indoctrination" for his attitude to LGBTQ. In fact, I would attribute my fairly open and tolerant approach to my liberal religious upbringing, at least to some degree. So religious indoctrination can blow both ways. It can support and encourage hatred, but it can also support and encourage more loving attitudes as well.