The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience

[Ritafee]

And speaking of a 99% survival rate as a blanket statement after a year of this is ridiculous.

What is the survival rate?

 

[Northwind]

What is the survival rate?

Do your own homework. I'm brainwashed aren't I.

 

[Ritafee]

Telling me or others what we believe is condescending and insulting

So you do not believe that vaccines are safe and effective?

 

[BetteTheRed]

1 in 900 Canadians are dead.

 

[Ritafee]

Do your own homework. I'm brainwashed aren't I.

So you refuse to answer the question.

 

[Northwind]

So you refuse to answer the question.

I'm done playing your stupid game.

 

[revjohn]

Because it bears repeating.

Before the Pandemic took hold in NL we had snowmageddon in St. John's. For two weeks, under a state of emergency we had severe travel restrictions. Heck everything was closed save for a few convenience stores. I couldn't get gas for my snowblower which wasn't a huge deal since I couldn't even get out to go for gas for the first half of the first week. The cupboards thinned very quickly because with only shovels available to clear the drive we burnt through human fuel very quickly.

Then when gas stations were opened they serviced only emergency vehicles for three days.

It was a week before we could get out and get what we needed. I was out of the house quite a bit due to shovelling quite a bit of snow.

So when we first had our Pandemic Restrictions fall into place we knew that we could do it and since the Pandemic Restrictions were significantly less onerous than the Snowmageddon State of Emergency we coped. Having to wait in line to get into a store was inconvenient but better than not having a store to line up for.

Stores here very quickly introduced flow patterns (started during our State of Emergency reopening). Masking did not become mandatory in public places until August of 2020.

The only things that were completely closed were bars, restaurants and churches. Restaurants were allowed to open for take-out only. Bars were not encouraged to do the same and Churches never really figured out how to pull off the take-out option. We went months without face-to-face worship and even after we were given the go-ahead to meet face-to-face with Public Health guidelines it took us another three months to populate the teams we would need to disinfect before and after.

By then gatherings could be 100 or less for worship purposes. We have a significant senior demographic and we knew that most of them would choose to not return to face-to-face until everyone was vaccinated. We kept running worship live-stream for them.

With our latest Covid-19 explosion (fuelled by folk ignoring public health restrictions) we went back to security level 5 from Security level 2. From gatherings of 100 or less to gatherings of 5 or less. We can still worship, that worship looks a lot different from before. Even so, we now have others in the building beside myself which took some getting used to. Our organist plays and we have kept hymns in the service for folk to sing along from home with. I find myself doing 4 hymns solo each service which I didn't sign up for. The only other person in the sanctuary is our Sound technician who is running an alternate live-stream that super-imposes the order of service.

We have moved to security level 4 and can max out worship at 20. We decided we would not put our parishioners into a first-come, first-served situation so we will wait until we can host 50 minimum before we reopen to face-face. We are prepared to add additional services to meet the needs of the congregation while respecting public health protocols. I have no idea why some believe it is an either/or thing when both/and options exist.

At any rate, celebrating 5 days new-case free. I hear horses chafing against the bit.

Horses running wild pushed us all back into the barns.

Do horses learn faster than people do?

 

[Lastpointe]

What happens to our immune system when we increasingly rely on pharmaceuticals?

I get very frustrated by this line of thinking. And the comparisons to past pandemics

pharmaceuticals aid us. We recover from diseases with help from medications. In the past, WE DIED.

just like the MAGA nutcase who told CNN he won’t take a vaccine because god will give his body the ability to ward off all disease. Yeah? How well is that working

pharma is not the enemy here

 

[Luce NDs]

Is death more unnatural than living forever so that some folk need to be pushed out violently?

The root of fear to those that do not respect nature's nurturing a small faction with 5D ... allowing for a step into the 6'D ... or so as said prim ally ... or Allah as the darker word record may creep us auto nimbly! Thus the nimble homunculus ... little man theory?

 

[GeoFee]

pharma is not the enemy here

History may tell a different story. My concern is with the multiple billions of dollars earned by pharmaceutical corporations. Why, if they are interested in our well being, do they charge such exorbitant prices for their drugs? Why are there more drugs produced and sold on a regular basis? From my point of view this is exploitation of the suffering of others.

Let me offer a small example. My companion, Barbara, was a Nursing Professor with a doctoral degree in Psychology, Education and Nursing. One year she attended a Medical Conference in some American city. She noticed the aggressive promotion by Pharmaceutical Companies. They would give Doctors expensive gifts and vacations in exchange for their support. From Barbara's point of view this was contrary to strategies promoting well being in the population. I agree with her perspective.

Where is the resistance of the general population to this exploitive practice? I am not suggesting that we not use medicine. I am insisting that making excessive profits from the illnesses of others is not acceptable.

Here are the profits for some major pharmaceutical corporations:​

​

Ranking	Company	Full-year revenues 2019
1	Pfizer	$51.75bn
2	Roche	Pharma sales $50bn; group sales $63.35bn
3	Novartis	$47.45bn
4	Merck & Co	$46.84bn

 

[Northwind]

. Why, if they are interested in our well being, do they charge such exorbitant prices for their drugs?

I am taking a drug that is ridiculously expensive. It is also very effective. Thankfully the province covers it. The drug company will cover it for those who can't pay.

She noticed the aggressive promotion by Pharmaceutical Companies. They would give Doctors expensive gifts and vacations in exchange for their support

I believe this has changed. And while this is not great practice, suggesting doctors are only prescribing certain drugs because of this practice is an insult to their intelligence.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are free things a great bribe in real life ... whereas is there in virtue ... any free thing?

The question is who pays when great profiteers are given license to do so and tax breaks to boot ...

Something more to kick around in a land where the ivory leagues only get wealth out of football!

The po' are told not to kick the cann ... Kahn ... Kahn Able?

May be an inside irony ...

 

[GeoFee]

In the past, WE DIED.

Every human being born will die. Historical sources note that the fear of death has much of the world in bondage. Tyrants employ the fear of death to control populations. This in contrast to Spiritual teachings from all corners of the world which indicate that we are not to succumb to the fear of death.

I have a book on my shelf which notices that in the past there were all manner of deaths. It goes on to say that in our time there are all manner of deaths. The author suggests that our understanding of progress may be questionable. I think of Indigenous peoples on all continents who lived for tens of thousands of generations in nature and according to the rules of nature. This compared to our Western ideas which have led us to pollute the planet's air and water. In this way polluting our own bodies. These ideas have been in play for less than one century. They have brought us to the brink of disaster.

 

[Luce NDs]

Are all the folks of the past dead ... or live on as genes? Possibly all within the creature of the lie ... as extended according to all we don't know as a rule (that common folks were meant to be illiterate)!

 

[Mendalla]

I believe this has changed.

Colleges and governments are certainly looking more closely at such practices and tightening the rules, or so I hear from those involved in the marketing end of the business. That's Ontario, of course. Not sure about the rest of Canada or the US.

We tend to sponsor events and such, rather than doing the kind of direct marketing the pharmas do. So we put money in to help a bunch of doctors run a hockey tournament and get to have a display in the arena lobby and our name/logo on the dinner program type stuff. Big pharma has more bucks to throw at promo than a small home care company does, though.

 

[GeoFee]

suggesting doctors are only prescribing certain drugs because of this practice is an insult to their intelligence.

I am not suggesting that Doctors are only prescribing certain drugs. Nor do I want to insult anyone of them. It is the focus of our intelligence that determines outcomes.

I have conversed about such things with my Doctor and my Dentist. My question to them? Why is the medical profession silent concerning the abuse of sugar, salt and fat in our culture? These substances are doing more harm than illicit pharmaceuticals. They stand at the centre of obesity, diabetes and other medical situations. Even so, market forces advertise such products as desirable and satisfying.

 

[Mendalla]

Why is the medical profession silent concerning the abuse of sugar, salt and fat in our culture?

They aren't. I've seen recommendations from medical associations and colleges about all of those for years. Harvard touches on it in their newsletters regularly. Remember that medically, it isn't that simple. Fats, in particular, are a complex topic and it is really only certain ones (like transfat) that are an issue. And, yes, medical associations were among the lobby groups involved in getting companies to ease off on transfats and governments to look at regulating them. They are also among those advocating for healthy fats like Omega-3. So I am not sure where you get this from.

 

[GeoFee]

In the past, WE DIED.

Every human being born will die. Historical sources note that the fear of death has much of the world in bondage. Tyrants employ the fear of death to control populations. This in contrast to Spiritual teachings from all corners of the world which indicate that we are not to succumb to the fear of death.

I have a book on my shelf which notices that in the past there were all manner of deaths. It goes on to say that in our time there are all manner of deaths. The author suggests that our understanding of progress may be questionable. I think of Indigenous peoples on all continents who lived for tens of thousands of generations in nature and according to the rules of nature. This compared to our Western ideas which have led us to pollute the planet's air and water. In this way polluting our own bodies. These ideas have been in play for less than one century. They have brought us to the brink of disaster.

 

[GeoFee]

They aren't. I've seen recommendations from medical associations and colleges about all of those for years. Harvard touches on it in their newsletters regularly. Remember that medically, it isn't that simple. Fats, in particular, are a complex topic and it is really only certain ones (like transfat) that are an issue. And, yes, medical associations were among the lobby groups involved in getting companies to ease off on transfats and governments to look at regulating them. They are also among those advocating for healthy fats like Omega-3. So I am not sure where you get this from.

I apologize for suggesting that all doctors are complicit. I will insist that some are. What would you say about the advertising agencies which foster disease by promoting indulgence? Not only physical disease but mental and social disease as well.

 

[Mendalla]

What would you say about the advertising agencies which foster disease by promoting indulgence? Not only physical disease but mental and social disease as well.

The advertising industry is a whole other beast than the medical end of things. That said, promoting indulgence is what they are paid to do. The ethics of some of it is dicey but regulating advertising brings the free speech crowd out to complain. Some countries do regulate advertising to rein in the worst excesses, so that's likely where we start. Britain, for one, I think regulate advertising more tightly than the US and Canada. We have certainly put rules around advertising smoking and booze so why not junk food?