The Church Vs. The State Civil Disobedience

[Northwind]

If I used the phrase “correct language”, I apologize. My emphasis is not on right and wrong. It is on cooperation rather than competition; a recognition that we are one human being. This even though we are deeply divided by those who seek only to control and exploit others.

Actually I appreciate your ability to discuss differing views. You have not been condescending. I apologize for implying otherwise.

This is an important discussion. Most of us here are concerned in some way about different aspects of this. I personally do not see that filling a church during a pandemic is an effective or wise form of "protest". It is irresponsible. I do believe we need to pay attention to what the powers that be are doing while we're distracted. That includes implementing "safety" measures that will stay in place long after this is over. The only example of that I can think of right now is having to take shoes off at some airports because one guy had a bomb in his shoe.

We have different talents and skills that we can use. You chose a path which made a difference in your corner of the world. I chose a different path which I hope made a difference somewhere.

I directed my initial comment to @Ritafee. I frankly don't expect an answer. I would love to be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Northwind]

Even so there is a wide gap between the mechanical influence of systems and the organic relations of human being. Nature is not a system but an organism; a living thing. Are you noticing that our technological growth has done much to devastate our environment and diminish genuine human being?

This is absolutely a concern. It's too bad really because technology can be used for good too. Look at the relationships we've developed through this medium.

I don't see the world in black and white because there are few absolutes. The technology horse has been out of the barn for some time. Decades if you include industrial revolution developments. How do we use it for the good? How do we make it safer?

 

[Ritafee]

This is an important discussion. Most of us here are concerned in some way about different aspects of this. I personally do not see that filling a church during a pandemic is an effective or wise form of "protest".

This is no longer a pandemic by any stretch of the imagination ... it is not dangerous to open the churches ... as in any virus season precautions can be taken not to spread illnesses ... we have always understood that ... the congregations that are opening are opening to convey that it is no longer dangerous to do so. The congregation that had their pastor jailed after 28 weeks of being open to full capacity without social distancing or mandatory masking ... did not cause any outbreaks of 'cases' (unless you can prove otherwise). They are not protesting as much as proving that there is no merit in remaining isolated from each other ... they are not a gathering of asymptomatic cases ... they are a gathering of human beings that consider themselves healthy enough to carry on as they usually would. To suggest that they are acting dangerously or selfishly and need to be punished on your behalf by the 'health authorities' enforcement officers ... that would not be my idea of a solution ... people resuming their church gathering or whatever gathering is part of the solution. I see from the how was church today ... that people are losing interest in the 'Zoom' services. I would as a solution encourage them to start gathering in person again ... there is no need to pretend that you are a vector of disease when you are not. We have seen that the health care system was failing long before the 'novel' virus ... every year they lament about the 'overload' during flu seasons .... what have they done to fix that during this endemic. All of the resources are being used to facilitate mass vaccination ... how is that solving the ongoing failure of the health care systems. So yes I have solutions but you do not support them ... stop the lockdowns and use resources for preventative health care not 'experimental and invasive 'shots in the dark'. We do not need a mass chemical cocktail ... we need improved preventative care not 'emergency reactive capitalizing of dis-ease wealth transfers .

So while I am not as good with words as George ... I do have an idea of what is not working ... and the lockdown strategies are not working .

So as a number one solution ... the more people that will stop complying with the unwarranted and unhealthy restrictions the better.

 

[Luce NDs]

Ess till ... a desire to full Phil the institutions tp take attention away from the people of the demos ...

Otherwise the tyrants will be insecure ...

 

[Northwind]

We have seen that the health care system was failing long before the 'novel' virus ...

Yes, that is one thing that this year has shown (if it wasn't visible before). Operating a health care system at full capacity or higher is not a good model. It falls apart with even smaller incidents than what we've seen this year.

We do not need a mass chemical cocktail ... we need improved preventative care not 'emergency reactive capitalizing of dis-ease wealth transfers .

I don't see it is either/or. Vaccines are an important part of a larger system. They should never be the "magic bullet" that fixes things. We can also provide preventative care. For instance, opening up access to physio treatment may mean less reliance on orthopedic surgeries or use of prescription drugs. Offering good home supports to independent seniors or people with challenges to activities of daily living is likely less expensive and much more humane than putting them in long term, residential care. Those are only a couple of ideas. We will still need the services we have, maybe less if we offer complimentary resources.

So as a number one solution ... the more people that will stop complying with the restrictions the better.

I would love that to be true. Again, an all or nothing approach is likely not the best.

 

[Luce NDs]

Yes, that is one thing that this year has shown (if it wasn't visible before). Operating a health care system at full capacity or higher is not a good model. It falls apart with even smaller incidents than what we've seen this year.



I don't see it is either/or. Vaccines are an important part of a larger system. They should never be the "magic bullet" that fixes things. We can also provide preventative care. For instance, opening up access to physio treatment may mean less reliance on orthopedic surgeries or use of prescription drugs. Offering good home supports to independent seniors or people with challenges to activities of daily living is likely less expensive and much more humane than putting them in long term, residential care. Those are only a couple of ideas. We will still need the services we have, maybe less if we offer complimentary resources.



I would love that to be true. Again, an all or nothing approach is likely not the best.

Recall the demos must be controlled (avarice?) so the hierarchy can capitalize ... expect fileting ...

 

[GeoFee]

How do we use it for the good? How do we make it safer?

I have spoken before of right use, misuse, and abuse. Right use bringing benefit, misuse bringing harm, and abuse bringing danger. This includes technology, which is being misused and abused by corporate power. A fine fictional presentation of this was done by George Orwell. His novel “Nineteen Eighty Four”” makes clear the abuse of technology as a means to control populations.

We are able to communicate at a distance with technology. While doing so, all we say is monitored by the powers who sell us our phones and computers.

 

[Luce NDs]

I have spoken before of right use, misuse, and abuse. Right use bringing benefit, misuse bringing harm, and abuse bringing danger. This includes technology, which is being misused and abused by corporate power. A fine fictional presentation of this was done by George Orwell. His novel “Nineteen Eighty Four”” makes clear the abuse of technology as a means to control populations.

We are able to communicate at a distance with technology. While doing so, all we say is monitored by the powers who sell us our phones and computers.

The greater good is beyond us ... according to that chap that declared utilitarianism a good meant to be distributive ... like scattered intelligence!

Folk must gather ... yet prefer dividing ... divination?

 

[GeoFee]

Vaccines are an important part of a larger system.

What happens to our immune system when we increasingly rely on pharmaceuticals?

 

[Northwind]

What happens to our immune system when we increasingly rely on pharmaceuticals?

What happens to those of us with compromised immune systems that can't be magically fixed by eating carrots and taking vitamin d?

 

[Luce NDs]

What happens to those of us with compromised immune systems that can't be magically fixed by eating carrots and taking vitamin d?

We are doomed ... yet doctors will declare good news and say they can fix all that is wrong ... although the flaw is human and can be surpassed by moving on ... next state?

Such is the sphere of lies if not inquired into ... divination!

 

[GeoFee]

What happens to those of us with compromised immune systems that can't be magically fixed by eating carrots and taking vitamin d?

We have opportunity to practice patience and persistence. There are many physical conditions that cannot be fixed. Each offers opportunity for spiritual growth.

 

[Luce NDs]

We have opportunity to practice patience and persistence. There are many physical conditions that cannot be fixed. Each offers opportunity for spiritual growth.

Thus cast rations ... out there!

 

[Northwind]

We have opportunity to practice patience and persistence. There are many physical conditions that cannot be fixed. Each offers opportunity for spiritual growth.

I learned the valuable skill called "Radical Acceptance" which has helped me immensely over the past two years. So while I agree with part of your statement, I also hear a "you're f***ed physically" in that statement.

I am getting a medication that will presumably extend my life. That is a significant reason my immune system is the way it is. While I can do things myself to be as physically healthy, some is out of my control. Please be mindful of statements that while well meaning come across as trite and insensitive. I know that's not how you want to be perceived

 

[Luce NDs]

I learned the valuable skill called "Radical Acceptance" which has helped me immensely over the past two years. So while I agree with part of your statement, I also hear a "you're f***ed physically" in that statement.

I am getting a medication that will presumably extend my life. That is a significant reason my immune system is the way it is. While I can do things myself to be as physically healthy, some is out of my control. Please be mindful of statements that while well meaning come across as trite and insensitive. I know that's not how you want to be perceived

You don't know the halve of my situation ... much of it controlled by naivete belief systems ...

 

[Northwind]

You don't know the halve of my situation ... much of it controlled by naivete belief systems ...

Frustrating isn't it.

 

[GeoFee]

I also hear a "you're f***ed physically" in that statemen

What you heard was not what I intended to say. I have worked with many disabled persons as a caregiver. In not one case did I ever intend or communicate disdain for the afflicted person. Disdain is one of our human problems. Respect is it’s remedy.

 

[Ritafee]

What happens to those of us with compromised immune systems that can't be magically fixed by eating carrots and taking vitamin d?

If you are immunocompromised, the best way to prevent corona is to avoid being exposed to the virus.

I am sure you already knew that as well as the following advice from the CDC:

Wash your hands after you have been in a public place, or after blowing your nose, coughing, or sneezing.
Avoid leaving home as much as possible and practice 'social distancing'.
If you must leave home, avoid other people as much as possible by practicing 'social distancing'.
Avoid large gatherings or places where people congregate.
Have supplies, food, and medicine delivered to your home.

Eating carrots and taking vitamin D, correct me if I am wrong, will not do you any harm.

 

[Northwind]

What you heard was not what I intended to say. I have worked with many disabled persons as a caregiver. In not one case did I ever intend or communicate disdain for the afflicted person. Disdain is one of our human problems. Respect is it’s remedy.

I realize that. That's why I pointed it out. I know that wasn't your intention. We need to be aware of how our messages land. Believe me, I've had a lot of practice rethinking messages I've sent.

 

[Northwind]

Eating carrots and taking vitamin D, correct me if I am wrong, will not do you any harm.

Nor will they work magic