Novel Coronavirus

[BetteTheRed]

If we start on-line ordering and pick up, I will volunteer to shop and bag up orders. I like groceries, and grocery shopping. We have a policy that we will assist disabled customers, and we have a couple of blind/super limited vision people who come here to shop. They know the approximate layout of the store, and I was often picked to be the "shopper" with them because I seem to have almost infinite patience with elderly people, almost none with anyone younger than I, lol.

 

[ChemGal]

But I must say Alberta seems very lax compared to my particular health unit, which I think might be the most anal-retentive in Ontario. "In person meetings"? Our training has all become, "one trainer, two trainees, MAX", in the break room, masked, with distancing. And if there's training going on, only one person allowed in at a time to access their locker or eat in there, because there's a max of 4 in the break room. 3 in the office, which when you've got two employee, and a shift/tray change involving three people starting at the same time, it's very complicated. Every space in our little building has been analyzed for capacity, including the back rooms where people receive and unpackage delivered food.

They are at least spaced and many things have shifted to online, plus we have many employees who have been working from home this entire time.
I question the in person aspects for some of it, although like I said I don't have all the details. Chemguy fully admitted though he was in a conference room when he didn't need to be in there with his exposure - the masking/spacing was at least there and it worked as there was no spread. That was 3 people in the large conference room though, so easy to space out.
I don't think rules vary much across Canada though for that not being allowed, they are considered an essential. For some things they really have gone beyond what was necessary according to the guidelines/law.

 

[Luce NDs]

If we start on-line ordering and pick up, I will volunteer to shop and bag up orders. I like groceries, and grocery shopping. We have a policy that we will assist disabled customers, and we have a couple of blind/super limited vision people who come here to shop. They know the approximate layout of the store, and I was often picked to be the "shopper" with them because I seem to have almost infinite patience with elderly people, almost none with anyone younger than I, lol.

Imagine archaic trends if you can get your head about it ... if not put some mind into it!

Some folks believe the mind is negative territory ... and thus a similar essence to the ghost of passions! One on one side one on the other ... like black and white in the worlds of inflexible gods ... who must win?

The world of the advocate may be subtle ... expect legal briefs ... dipping's?

 

[Mendalla]

If we start on-line ordering and pick up, I will volunteer to shop and bag up orders. I like groceries, and grocery shopping. We have a policy that we will assist disabled customers, and we have a couple of blind/super limited vision people who come here to shop. They know the approximate layout of the store, and I was often picked to be the "shopper" with them because I seem to have almost infinite patience with elderly people, almost none with anyone younger than I, lol.

I suspect the shoppers who do that picking could probably write a book on picking groceries quickly and efficiently. I see them doing their thing frequently when I do the shopping.

 

[ChemGal]

I suspect the shoppers who do that picking could probably write a book on picking groceries quickly and efficiently. I see them doing their thing frequently when I do the shopping.

The store ones seem to be good, I know someone who has used instacart a number of times. She has shared just a portion of the 'they don't have it' texts with pictures, the item pretty much always in the picture. To be fair to the shopper she suspected they didn't have strong english skills and there was probably an increase of people doing instacart shopping this past year.

 

[Ritafee]

Mary-Louise McLaws decrees that anyone picking up groceries, working out, going to the movies or going to places of worship in Greater Sydney will be forced to wear a mask.​

McLaws tries to justify that with this ...
"Because 'no', you can't make that decision yourself because you may not make it well enough or on enough information so ...

Sorry Princess ...​

I really can make that decision myself based on more than enough information as referenced here ...​

Noted Physician Makes Definitive Moral Case Against Mask Mandates​

Although this primarily speaks to other physicians, it speaks to all people who insist they have the right to force you to wear a face mask in any setting. It is morally and ethically wrong as all physicians take the Hippocratic Oath to “Do no harm”.

 

[Redbaron]

Sure, you can make that decision yourself. The question is if you'll make the RIGHT decision.

And shouldn't a physician be making arguments based on MEDICAL bases, rather than MORAL bases?

 

[Ritafee]

Sure, you can make that decision yourself. The question is if you'll make the RIGHT decision.

And shouldn't a physician be making arguments based on MEDICAL bases, rather than MORAL bases?

And shouldn't you have read the article before making your decision to try to negate it ...

This is a direct quote from the article ...

I have no right to obstruct anyone’s breathing. I have no right to cause widely demonstrated and clinically confirmed hypoxic injuries to the brain, heart and musculoskeletal system known in the peer-reviewed research to be caused by masking. Yes, I am sorry that you have been told over the last year that masks don’t reduce oxygen, by emphatic and dogmatic people, but the fact remains that oxygen deficit during mask-wearing is very thoroughly established in peer-reviewed clinical data. Here[1], here[2] and here[3], for example.

There are 17 more references to peer reviewed clinical data in the article should you wish to go on to negate them one by one.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I suspect the shoppers who do that picking could probably write a book on picking groceries quickly and efficiently. I see them doing their thing frequently when I do the shopping.

I'll share a customer who blows me away. She's a PSW for a retirement home, where the residents have little kitchenettes and can feed themselves as they wish, although there is a dining room/meal plans. She shops for the residents. As many as seven lists, as many as seven sets of their own cloth/re-usable bags carefully identified. What is amazing is that she does all seven lists in one pass of the store.

 

[Mendalla]

I'll share a customer who blows me away. She's a PSW for a retirement home, where the residents have little kitchenettes and can feed themselves as they wish, although there is a dining room/meal plans. She shops for the residents. As many as seven lists, as many as seven sets of their own cloth/re-usable bags carefully identified. What is amazing is that she does all seven lists in one pass of the store.

Okay, maybe she should be writing the book.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Yes, I am sorry that you have been told over the last year that masks don’t reduce oxygen, by emphatic and dogmatic people, but the fact remains that oxygen deficit during mask-wearing is very thoroughly established in peer-reviewed clinical data.

If that was the case, and the "oxygen deficit" had any clinical effects, then every surgeon on the planet would be affected over the last what hundred years, when it was discovered that if surgeons didn't breathe into their patients' wounds, they were less likely to get infected.

Yeah, I read this one little conclusion, full of weasel words:

"Conclusions. Considering our findings, pulse rates of the surgeon's increase and SpO2 decrease after the first hour. This early change in SpO2 may be either due to the facial mask or the operational stress. Since a very small decrease in saturation at this level, reflects a large decrease in PaO2 , our findings may have a clinical value for the health workers and the surgeons."

It's also talking about during "long surgeries". I know that some very complex surgeries may take hours. Many nurses work 12 hour shifts in masks and have done so for years. I work with, and am friends with, a boatload of retired nurses, and they're not dropping like flies of deoxygenation. Or anything else for that matter.

So, I guess, I ask you. Surgeons are in the helping profession. Every time they perform a surgical procedure there is a serious risk of them killing their patient, if they are not appropriately PPE'd. If they're they're not willing to take some apparently pretty small risk (I mean, we don't talk about brain surgeons dying in their 40s, but retiring rich in Florida), and the best the article can come up with is "may have a clinical value for the health workers and the surgeons", then should they be healthcare workers?

 

[BetteTheRed]

Okay, maybe she should be writing the book.

Now, because she's the PSW, she does give them pre-printed blank lists with suggested categories; depending on the client, this can be less helpful than it sounds. But she's got a tidy start, and can pre-view the lists moving inappropriately categorized articles to to the right spot, via a pencil and arrows.

 

[Ritafee]

So, I guess, I ask you. Surgeons are in the helping profession. Every time they perform a surgical procedure there is a serious risk of them killing their patient, if they are not appropriately PPE'd. If they're they're not willing to take some apparently pretty small risk

Generally speaking ... surgeons do not practice surgical procedures in the grocery store. As I said ... masks have their place ... only where the the benefits are proven to outweigh the risk.

I have no right to force anybody to wear a mask when the benefits do not outweigh the risks.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I have no right to force anybody to wear a mask when the benefits do not outweigh the risks.

The benefits to whom? The risks to whom?

Doesn't society get to make some decisions about this? We decide that if you choose to be a surgeon, we're going to mandate you wear a mask/PPE during your surgery, because of the huge risk to the patient to the patient. During a pandemic, when there's ton of evidence that mask use reduces the spread of all sorts of contagion, why can we not mandate that everyone wear a mask, and those very few who cannot, work with the society to make this as risk-free for ALL members of society, minimum wage grocery store workers included, by mandating mask/face shield/gaiter, or that you shop via curbside pick up, delivery, neighbour, etc., all of which are abundantly available right now. Like I've said before, one of my favorite customers, from an attitude POV, is the guy, probably in his late 60s I would think, COPD, I'd guess, on oxygen, which he keeps in the front basket of his scooter. He's here most days, lives in the neighbourhood, gets here by scooter, limited as much as anything by what you can find the energy to put in your basket, take out, pay for. He's got a surgical mask, proudly, and as well-fitting as he can, over his O2 hoses.

 

[Northwind]

It fits the restrictions. Not much different than when dining in is allowed in restaurants, at least people in the room are masked for most of the time when there unlike in a restaurant.

How many people? What are the guidelines around number of people? It sounds like too many if it were BC. I realize provinces have different guidelines.

 

[BetteTheRed]

In Ontario, in Grey, no in-person dining, take-out, delivery, only. At Red, 10 people inside a restaurant total. Must be max 4 at a table. I guess presumably they could be all unrelated. I have had ONE meal inside in the last year, with a single woman, who works at home, who I occasionally walk dogs with (used to be regular, until her dogs died and we had to wait for new pup to be adult enough and full sized enough for Lucy to interact with). I had Christmas dinner with my baby sister, who had not had her live-in guy in the house in two weeks because he spends the Christmas season with his parents in Ottawa. And we didn't do any hugging, either. I have had about three illicit hugs since the old guy died, including one from the head nurse on his ward the night before.

Those are my only unmasked, real-time, in-person contacts since this began. We had a very few, very limited capacity services in the church, but no more.

I'm reading tomorrow. If we'd been in Grey Zone, we would have done a Zoom recording. In Red, I can go in, masked, and read, unmasked, with singers/musicians all with acrylic barriers, and everyone masked except when speaking/singing.

Even this work I've done to help to start organize his musical legacy has been very carefully accomplished, with distancing, masks, etc.

 

[Redbaron]

Mary-Louise McLaws decrees that anyone picking up groceries, working out, going to the movies or going to places of worship in Greater Sydney will be forced to wear a mask.​

McLaws tries to justify that with this ...
"Because 'no', you can't make that decision yourself because you may not make it well enough or on enough information so ...

Sorry Princess ...​

I really can make that decision myself based on more than enough information as referenced here ...​

Noted Physician Makes Definitive Moral Case Against Mask Mandates​

Although this primarily speaks to other physicians, it speaks to all people who insist they have the right to force you to wear a face mask in any setting. It is morally and ethically wrong as all physicians take the Hippocratic Oath to “Do no harm”.

Real simple solution. Stay the hell out of Greater Sydney. That way you won't have to pay attention to what Professor McLaws, world renowned epidemiologist, respected expert on infectious diseases, has to say. However, wherever you DO go, there will likely be rules and Public Health regulations, which any person really should follow. Frankly what you claim as your "right to decide for me" does not in any way impact the truth, reality, factuality, or common sense of what Professor Mc:Laws has to say.

 

[Ritafee]

Real simple solution. Stay the hell out of Greater Sydney.

Being that I am not politically enshrined enough nor rich or famous enough to gain entry without restrictions ... I guess I will have to.

 

[ChemGal]

How many people? What are the guidelines around number of people? It sounds like too many if it were BC. I realize provinces have different guidelines.

It's on a capacity basis not an overall number.

 

[PilgrimsProgress]

Mary-Louise McLaws decrees that anyone picking up groceries, working out, going to the movies or going to places of worship in Greater Sydney will be forced to wear a mask.​

McLaws tries to justify that with this ...
"Because 'no', you can't make that decision yourself because you may not make it well enough or on enough information so ...

Sorry Princess ...​

I really can make that decision myself based on more than enough information as referenced here ...​

Noted Physician Makes Definitive Moral Case Against Mask Mandates​

You have got to be kidding........

That so-called "technology" magazine is a joke. It should be called "The Paranoid Highly Suspicious Magazine".
I note that one of the so-called articles is for those that are paranoid about their car number plates.

It's not rocket science - when there's a pandemic put your trust in someone - like McLaws -who is trained in that particular area of medicine. Even the devil can quote from the Bible.
Anyone who can't see that has a kangaroo loose in their top paddock.........