On Forgiveness: A Faithful And Biblical Definition

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I do Baptism in lieu of Children's Time so the younger portion of the congregation are still present. On Sundays when there is Sunday School I have taken to doing Communion right after Children's Time as then the Sunday School folk stay upstairs until after receiving (as they were less than reliable at coming upstairs later on). When there is no SS Communion is later on.

More to the point....
you have a baptism rehearsal?
Kind of a tradition in this congregation. It includes a preparation time where we do some teaching about baptism, faith, the church, etc. and then a run through of the service that helps us deal with specifics around the liturgy such as the questions to the parents. Never done this anywhere until I moved here two years ago.

We do both baptism and children's time. On Communion Sundays we have children's time later in the service just before Communion, so the children and teachers come up from Sunday School rather than going down to Sunday School.
 
Just trying to figure out why the baby was exhibiting such inconsistent behaviour. My experience with infants is that they are nothing if not consistent.

I don't think I have ever had to deal with a crying infant at a Baptism. Loud cooing when they grab my throat hairs in their chubby little mitts almost always, crying not at all.

My eyes well up but nobody cries.

Eye wells ... that brings up a node of vitreous humour!
 
I prefer to celebrate Baptism early in the service also.

Parents get very antsy about how loud their baby might be. I typically have a mic I will win any volume competition.

Having been the parent with an infant in worship I appreciate how the coos and gurgles feel deafening. So early in the service so the parents spend less time sweating mostly nothing.

Good volumes are necessary at Maas I've events as seen ...
 
Is it possible to have forgiven someone and still feel hurt and wish they never did what you've forgiven them for? Like, not angry anymore, but still sad because of the resulting circumstances? Or does that mean forgiveness hasn't happened?
 
Thus we forgive tyrannical organizations for lack of concern for all the rest!

We must do this according to kingly law ... formed by who? Tis a sacred item ... we shouldn't know! Thus again intellect goes down ...
 
Is it possible to have forgiven someone and still feel hurt and wish they never did what you've forgiven them for? Like, not angry anymore, but still sad because of the resulting circumstances? Or does that mean forgiveness hasn't happened?

I would think so. Sure, forgiveness is part of the healing process, but I don't see it as a magic bullet that makes it all go away. To cite a current example, I am pretty sure the brother of the black man shot by the cop next door in that case in the US still feels hurt and wishes it didn't happen even after forgiving her.

 
In the places I have been we baptize during children's time. Children and teens being witnesses. Some of them recalling their own moment of baptism. I prefer speaking after. This allows me to reflect on the meaning and purpose of baptism as a decision to die to one way of being in the world and rise to another. I tend to do this in language easily understood by those with little biblical experience.
 
That would always be how our congregation would do it, I'd think. Almost always, it is a child (of the family, and/or the congregation) who pours the water into the font.
 
I note that two topics have been discussed in this thread - forgiveness and baptism..........

Some of you may recall that I had a huge disagreement with the minister at my former congregation. I have many friends there -so about every three months I attend church there. At the last time that this has occurred the minister stunned the congregation by saying that she has accepted another church appointment in another state -and will be leaving this Christmas.

After the service folks lined up to say goodbye etc - and I found myself joining the queue.
Since attending my new mission church I have been encouraged by the minister to give sermons and talks on living with a mental illness. This has led me to studying to be a lay preacher at the Uniting College. I have completed the course and await being accredited.....
As I stood in line I realised that, despite the hurt at the time, she had actually led me to developing my faith.
This is how it went.....
She said that she thought she saw me sitting in the congregation - and what a strange coincidence - as I wouldn't have known that she would be announcing her departure.
I said I would be sorry to see her go -and that I had always admired her understanding of theology. She thanked me and I gave her a hug. I then said, "But, the truth is we haven't always seen eye to eye". She smiled, and said, "That's true."
"I like you, anyway', I said. She hugged me and said, "I like you too, Chris."
Not exactly an apology, but I felt somehow lighter and knew that I had forgiven her..........

Now for baptism. My tutor rang me from the college and said that "we" have a problem. It seems, that as I was never christened, I would have to be baptised as an adult. I rang my minister, who said, he would baptise me in two weeks - and I can give the sermon on that day as well!

Anyone else get the feeling I'm doing things the wrong way round?
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
Is it possible to have forgiven someone and still feel hurt and wish they never did what you've forgiven them for? Like, not angry anymore, but still sad because of the resulting circumstances? Or does that mean forgiveness hasn't happened?

Grace may be free to those forgiven.

It always costs the one who gives it.

This is part of the scandal of grace. It must release any claims for compensation amd it must presume a reconciliation that the other has no interest in at all.

Since the Jean-Guyger case is front and central it makes a good lense.

The Jean family's Christian faith compels them to forgive.

What does it cost them to forgive? Initially it costs them a loved one. Their forgiveness eill not raise the dead. The murderer's apology won't raise the dead either.

The murderer will eventually forget the day, probably looks forward with some hope to being able to forget the day.

The Jean family will likely never forget the day.

Another black man dead at the hands of a white police officer. Never mind that his "threatening" behaviour was eating his own cereal in his own apartment.

Sure Guyger was convicted. 10 years for entering somebody else's apartment armed and shooting them while they sat on their iwn couch eating a bowl of cereal is a colossal screw-up and raises serious questions about training.

The hug will slow down the need for any inquiry in that direction because all is forgiven why give white people any more grief about it?

And the powers that would look into that are predominantly white. They weren't likely going to look too closely to begin with.

White cops shoot black men with regularity. It is accepted.

Heck a black caregiver of a man with autism was shot simply for complying with police instruction.

Racism is systemic and endemic. Forgiveness will not change that because it doesn't represent action taken by the problem party.

The Jean family were convinced of Guyger's sincerity so they forgave. It was an act of grace which enraged other blacks who see, all to often, black men gunned down by white police officers.

It gives whites some breathing room as we now expect a sorry to force a reconciliation and it costs us nothing to say the words.

Those who forgive always pay a higher price.

The trick, of course, is not to become bitter for doing so. Expecting grace we give to transform those we give it to utterly and completely so that we get what we want for giving it betrays a profound misunderstanding of what grace truly is.
 
I understand the question of forgiveness. I like to think I can forgive. But I don't seem to be able to forget. Maybe it's a form of self protection.
 
I understand the question of forgiveness. I like to think I can forgive. But I don't seem to be able to forget. Maybe it's a form of self protection.

'Forgive and forget" is not, as far as I can recall, biblical. "Forgive" does not mean forget, and should not. For instance, an abused person should be able to forgive their abuser while still taking measures to protect themselves from harm.
 
Forgetting is a plan (scheme, plot, conspiracy) to create conditions where you could be screwed again ... or repeatedly bent out of shape of what the controlling tyrants call roue! Gets me all bent out of shape at the very idea of not knowing due to gnawing doubts ... thus it goes anyway due to overstated pas Zions!

Thus uncertainty theory rules when led by the determinate sorts!
 
There are two groups I'm having trouble forgiving. Trump voters. And Canadians who supported the passage of MAID when it was full of holes and on the edge of a slippery slope from day one, and they didn't listen.
 
There are two groups I'm having trouble forgiving. Trump voters. And Canadians who supported the passage of MAID when it was full of holes and on the edge of a slippery slope from day one, and they didn't listen.

Don't hear and don't see ... nothing to speak of ... yet it goes on for considerable distance .. the 3 mon qui roule!
 
Don't hear and don't see ... nothing to speak of ... yet it goes on for considerable distance .. the 3 mon qui roule!
One of the vocal supporters in the Supreme Court trial is actually an old family friend. I used to love going to their house - I knew his kids. He's so jovial, funny - but he totally missed the boat on the disability rights side. I feel like maybe I should write to him and tell my side. Maybe he'd listen and change his perspective a bit. Maybe not. It hurts to know someone I loved and respected growing up, was part of what'll probably kill me.
 
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