Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

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Kimmio Laughterlove said:


..changes made at the behest of the people - people will need to drive the change and be the change, though. Including some of the powers that be stepping back and becoming the powers that were.
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Which People, tho? Thatz always rhe question.

Only the Woke?
How bout a Wokist who doesn't believe racism will ever die (they exist)?
Amazonian Rainforest natives?
Glenn Beck?
That guy serving ribs at the Portland Demonstration last Sat?
A Salafist?
The King of Saudi Arabia?
Real actual Nazis?
ex ISIL?
Etc.

Really rhetorical above. Not meant to be answered. Who gets to decide? Who gets left out and why? How many people does it affect? What parts of the world?

I wish for whatever world is coming aboot that Nutmeg and I can live in it.

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
Waterfall said:
Graeme, I personally think we should be careful when we condemn the wealthy. Afterall Jesus did rely on the rich to support his ministry at times. If we ourselves are born into poverty, do we hope the same for our children or even ourselves to remain so? Sure excess of wealth ,begs us to ask the question, how much is too much? But we have been told, it's not how much we have but whether we love money above all else. Charity is essential for those who are blessed(cursed?) with such a responsibility.
We should call out the atrocities created from wealth and greed but we should also acknowledge it's not true in all cases.
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Hear hear!

(I miss revjohn)

I think some self-identified christians who also self-identify as rich can b christian

(Not everyone on this Dirtball is going to feel the same way. Vivre la difference!!!)

After all I've never met a christian or a rich person or even a person. I've only ever met beings who have identified themselves as such

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
BetteTheRed said:
Not generally, but some very saintly people, like the Buddha, have given up all their wealth to pursue a spiritual quest.
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The Buddha also had to learn by experiment et al aboot that? He "discovered" it themselvez?

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
 
Inannawhimsey said:
Which People, tho? Thatz always rhe question.

Only the Woke?
How bout a Wokist who doesn't believe racism will ever die (they exist)?
Amazonian Rainforest natives?
Glenn Beck?
That guy serving ribs at the Portland Demonstration last Sat?
A Salafist?
The King of Saudi Arabia?
Real actual Nazis?
ex ISIL?
Etc.

Really rhetorical above. Not meant to be answered. Who gets to decide? Who gets left out and why? How many people does it affect? What parts of the world?

I wish for whatever world is coming aboot that Nutmeg and I can live in it.

#MutualAid
#BeNotAfraid
#SystemicWhimsey
#JoyPrivilege
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The problem is, with real actual Nazis, there’s a real chance that you and I and Nutmeg - and anyone they decide is not their ideal human, can’t actually live in it. Literally. Can’t. Live. In. It. They might use you as long as it serves them, though. But no longer than that. So dont call me selfish or self hating, for standing against that evil crap, and stop promoting their adjacent red pill baiting MoFos. I know you’ll try to dog me here, more than you do anyone else. Don’t. Just leave me alone if you feel that urge, and don’t act like a weasel. I was done with your “perspectacles” over two years ago. I figured out the game. If you want to be my actual friend, don’t play it with me.
 
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BetteTheRed ---you said ----
unsafe, you talk about other people "reading things into the bible".--Camels are not meek and mild

I say ---Oh !
according to this --they are gentle and and friendly --so laugh away there BettTheRed-----and they have no attachments to their possessions ----which is the context of what Jesus is saying --------they have a better chance to go through the eye of the needle -----that is the narrow way to heaven ------than the rich who are tied to their stuff and who are following the wide path of this wicked world -----

Camels are Loyal animals to their masters ----not to their stuff ------


Loyal camel walks alone for seven days to find former owners ...
www.dailymail.co.uk › news › article-8521203 › Loyal.

Jul 14, 2020 - Heart-warming footage shows the camel finally returning to its former owners in ... The camel in China escaped from its new keeper after being sold by a ... 'Homesick' camel walks more than 62 miles to find its former owner.


Then there is this
Camels are gentle and friendly creatures. Most people don’t get much of a chance to interact with them, so they might have many questions about this interesting creature,

From Google ------
Are camels affectionate?
Despite their frightening appearance, camels are very emotional and, in general, are more inquisitive, affectionate and attention-seeking than a horse. Treat a camel well, and its loyalty will rival that of a dog

How does a camel behave?
Camels are considered to be gentle creatures, but they can bite or kick when annoyed. When excited, camels huff and spit.
 
Camels huff and spit ... disturbed like narrow minded sols ...

Camels are big footed ... grand for fete's in the sans (out there)!
 
Mendalla ---you said -------Which, I think, is really the attitude Jesus is seeking. Lack of attachment to the material. Much like Buddha that way.

I say ---for me there is a big difference between the way Buddha tells people to seek detachment to the material and Jesus way to seek detachment to the material ------just thought I would point out the difference -----

Buddha does it through self meditation -------the person is on their own to try and attain that goal ------the question then becomes does that say we humans all by ourselves have the strength and ability to put down our self desires of wants ----if this is so then God didn't need to create the Bible ---and Jesus died for nothing -----all we humans have to do is meditate and all sickness and disease ---all stress ---all bad situations in our lives can be erased all by our selves through meditation -----

The way to beat detachment to material in the Bible is to rely on God's Grace which comes through Faith ----not through self meditation ----Grace is very powerful and gives people the ability to be able to resist stuff attachment -
Grace is a person -----Jesus is Grace

This says it best -for me ----
www.churchofjesuschrist.org

The Divine Power of Grace

The Divine Power of Grace
www.churchofjesuschrist.org

Of all the attributes of Jesus Christ, perhaps the most significant is that He is “full of grace” (John 1:14). In the scriptures the term grace most often refers to the divine disposition and power to bless, bestow gifts, or otherwise act favorably toward man. The Bible Dictionary puts it this way: “The main idea of the word [grace] is divine means of help or strength. … Grace is an enabling power” (“Grace”). It enables the recipient to do and to be what he or she cannot do and cannot be if left to his or her own means.
 
unsafe said:
Buddha does it through self meditation -------the person is on their own to try and attain that goal
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Disagree. There are schools of Buddhism. All of them have some sort of variation of The Noble Eight Fold Path, which would, more or less, sync with the concepts of the 10 Commandments.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Disagree. There are schools of Buddhism. All of them have some sort of variation of The Noble Eight Fold Path, which would, more or less, sync with the concepts of the 10 Commandments.
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She is right, though, that Buddhism at its heart is about self-attainment of enlightenment. Bodhisattvas and Buddhas can help,.but there is nothing corresponding to sola gratia or sola fides. It is very much works-based.
 
Mendalla said:
She is right, though, that Buddhism at its heart is about self-attainment of enlightenment. Bodhisattvas and Buddhas can help,.but there is nothing corresponding to sola gratia or sola fides. It is very much works-based.
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Agreed, but so was James. Faith without works is dead.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Agreed, but so was James. Faith without works is dead.
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Tis all so complex for those supporting the growth of simple ... so the sheep can be MS led ... yet fete noir ... may be good for the consumer ... not so good for the hairy one! Something to bete up on ...
 
BetteTheRed said:
Agreed, but so was James. Faith without works is dead.
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Not sure Buddhism even really requires faith. It's really more of a philosophy than a religion in its purest form. You can follow the four noble truths and the eightfold path without ever believing in boddhisatvas and such, and that would make you a Buddhist IMHO. There are devotional branches of Buddhism, and I have seen them in action during my travels in China, but it is not necessary. Whereas, it could be argued that a faith in God and in Jesus having some relationship to said God (literal son, metaphorical son, prophet, whatever) is pretty much a necessity for Christianity.
 
Mendalla said:
Whereas, it could be argued that a faith in God and in Jesus having some relationship to said God (literal son, metaphorical son, prophet, whatever) is pretty much a necessity for Christianity.
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I'm not there, and they let me be chair of Faith Formation & Christian Education here...
 
BetteTheRed said:
We are going to attempt a respectful and inclusive convo about the Grandfather teachings in the fall.
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I like that my grandfather thought nothing was love ... that instant antes of losing it! Thus relaxation and all the rest ... as a coming out? De Boo Tant!
 
Pinga said:
I found this article interesting. It may be related as it speaks regarding trends over time and barriers / class differences

theconversation.com

Money buys even more happiness than it used to

Americans with lower incomes today are less happy than they were 40 years ago. Could the growing class divide be to blame?
theconversation.com theconversation.com
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I wonder how they define happiness? Having more "stuff"?; more choices? more opportunity to give? No outstanding bills?
Does making more money give us more time with family or less?

Funny thing is when I've traveled to SOME poorer countries, I've encountered a spirit of happiness that transcends the poverty......possibly demonstrating more what Paul was referring to......contentment.

But I could also see that having enough would relieve stress whereas having too much could add to stress and unhappiness. Having too little and living in poverty could create the same thing.
It's probably more about balance and paying attention to many things, not just money, that factors into our well being.
 
Waterfall said:
I wonder how they define happiness? Having more "stuff"?; more choices? more opportunity to give? No outstanding bills?
Does making more money give us more time with family or less?
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The amazing thing you see with a lot of the big moneymakers is that they still spend huge amounts of time working so I am not sure it gives us more time with family. I think that may be part of why you're starting to see people like Brin and Page stepping back from their businesses. Would not surprise me to see Zuckerberg retire young as well.

Waterfall said:
But I could also see that having enough would relieve stress whereas having too much could add to stress and unhappiness.
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Having enough money definitely helps, I think. But I also think must be a point where diminishing returns kicks in. I mean, I would say that I have enough and I am nowhere near to having as much money as even some doctors and lawyers, let alone corporate execs and successful businessmen. I would probably stress out over what to with it all if I was in the big leagues.

So I guess for me, happiness is about that balance you mention. Having enough so you live without anxiety about what happens if you lose your job or whatever, but not being rich to the point of excess. But maybe if you're a wild hedonistic sort who needs money to gratify various desires, perhaps that isn't enough. However, I find that the top few on the Forbes list, like Gates and Buffett, don't tend to fit that mold. Many of them live fairly frugally even though they could afford a Hollywood lifestyle better than some of the people in Hollywood.
 
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