Can You Be Rich and Be a Christian?

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ninjafaery -----you said
The idea of a camel going through a needle is absurd.

I say ----Not when you understand the Spiritual Meaning of what is actually being said ----in this full statement----like so many you take a piece of Scripture and say it is absurd because of ignorance of not understanding the spiritual meaning of it -----it is foolish to the natural man ------

Matthew 19:24 ----
New International Version
Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God


I say ---camels were a sign of wealth in the Old Testament -----Abraham had camels ----and Jacob had camels as part of his prosperity ---

Genesis 30 NIV
Jacob’s Flocks Increase
42 but if the animals were weak, he would not place them there. So the weak animals went to Laban and the strong ones to Jacob. 43 In this way the man grew exceedingly prosperous and came to own large flocks, and female and male servants, and camels and donkeys.

I say
Jesus is the eye of the needle and all must enter the Kingdom of God through Him ----it matters not who you are or what status you hold or how big you become ----to see the Kingdom of God ---all must go through the eye of the needle which represents a narrow way to God's Kingdom -----who is Jesus Christ

We are to seek God in all things and God will provide for us what we need and that includes both Spiritual things and Material things ----according to His will for us and we are to be content with what we have ------as we mature in our walk with God and we do the right thing with the little we have --God may Bless us with more as He trust us to use the more He gives us to help others and advance His Kingdom not squander it for ourselves ----

Material Wealth with God is not the issue Folks ---it is what we do with what God has provided us with ----we are Blessed to Bless others not ourselves -----
 
Sheep parable really cloud the vision ... especially as blinded followers of poorly understood faith that demands selling to sol over a point ... gravitas?

That point lined up in order may make a razor's edge that can cut the difference between one thing and genius ... djinns are out according to those believing in physic alone ... thus small chitz ... Rovers? Oil of the carob bean will do for the time being ... dung beedles? Count your beads to impress the pedeist! Thus thoughts are peddled silently in the Pa Rabble! It is said there is a wee strong man in the great woman spirit ... opposing the female spirit as defined by anima ...

Zacheus ...Zake ass ... thus bummers move away from the mercantile ... selling power essence!
 
ninjafaery said:
.it refers to a camel hair thread that is very bulky, and would be very difficult to thread through the eye of a needle.
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Nice alternative spin. So not impossible as the traditional understanding suggests, but very difficult. Would be nice to see a source for that but it intrigues me.
 
Mendalla said:
Nice alternative spin. So not impossible as the traditional understanding suggests, but very difficult. Would be nice to see a source for that but it intrigues me.
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There were other examples though, of Jesus using hyperbole to get his point across. That camel may still have to pass through the needle, but at least it's a context.
"You think it's hard to thread a needle with camel hair? How 'bout a real camel going through?
 
And then there's the theory that the "Eye of the Needle" was actually a gate in Jerusalem.

From Wiki, although I've seen it elsewhere.

The "Eye of the Needle" has been claimed to be a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could not pass through the smaller gate unless it was stooped and had its baggage removed. The story has been put forth since at least the 15th century and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no widely accepted evidence for the existence of such a gate.[7][8]
 
BetteTheRed said:
And then there's the theory that the "Eye of the Needle" was actually a gate in Jerusalem.

From Wiki, although I've seen it elsewhere.

The "Eye of the Needle" has been claimed to be a gate in Jerusalem, which opened after the main gate was closed at night. A camel could not pass through the smaller gate unless it was stooped and had its baggage removed. The story has been put forth since at least the 15th century and possibly as far back as the 9th century. However, there is no widely accepted evidence for the existence of such a gate.[7][8]
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I heard that interpretation too. Unsage also mentioned that camels were a sign of wealth...It's a mystery :cool:

Unsafe, I understand your need to set us straight, but just so you know, I don't really read those long posts. I know where you're coming from, so it doesn't seem useful to read all that copy and paste scripture. I can hardly see your real comments in all that.
 
ninjafaery said:
Unsage also mentioned that camels were a sign of wealth
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Makes sense. Horses were, too. That's why the Roman middle class were called "equestrians" ("equites" in Latin). Originally, it meant they could afford to buy a horse(s) and serve in the cavalry rather than infantry. Still true today, to some degree. You don't see too many blue collar workers owning horses. Though our cavalry uses tanks and LAVs and anyone can serve since they don't expect you to actually buy your own tank.
 
BettThrRed ----you said ---------And then there's the theory that the "Eye of the Needle" was actually a gate in Jerusalem.

This is from ----https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/3918/Eye-of-Needle-.htm

What the Bible says about Eye of a Needle

This proverb has always been intriguing. Years ago, a friend related a story of a gate in the wall around ancient Jerusalem called the "Eye of the Needle," or the "Needle's Eye." This gate was designed in such a way that it could be used by pedestrians but not by marauding bandits on their camels. The only way a camel could get through this "Eye of the Needle" was to be unloaded and crawl through on its knees.
This great story—and several variations of it—have made the rounds over the years.

The only problem with this story is that it is not true! There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence for the existence of such a gate. The story was first told several centuries ago and has been repeated ever since. It is yet another example of people trying to make Christ's words fit their own concepts of what He meant.


I say -----I agree with this last statement here ---we humans love to take a piece of scripture and twist it to suit our own agenda ---
 
Mendalla said:
Makes sense. Horses were, too. That's why the Roman middle class were called "equestrians" ("equites" in Latin). Originally, it meant they could afford to buy a horse(s) and serve in the cavalry rather than infantry. Still true today, to some degree. You don't see too many blue collar workers owning horses. Though our cavalry uses tanks and LAVs and anyone can serve since they don't expect you to actually buy your own tank.
Click to expand...

Some folk accrued goats!
 
unsafe said:
BettThrRed ----you said ---------And then there's the theory that the "Eye of the Needle" was actually a gate in Jerusalem.

This is from ----https://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/cgg/ID/3918/Eye-of-Needle-.htm

What the Bible says about Eye of a Needle

This proverb has always been intriguing. Years ago, a friend related a story of a gate in the wall around ancient Jerusalem called the "Eye of the Needle," or the "Needle's Eye." This gate was designed in such a way that it could be used by pedestrians but not by marauding bandits on their camels. The only way a camel could get through this "Eye of the Needle" was to be unloaded and crawl through on its knees.
This great story—and several variations of it—have made the rounds over the years.

The only problem with this story is that it is not true! There is absolutely no archaeological or historical evidence for the existence of such a gate. The story was first told several centuries ago and has been repeated ever since. It is yet another example of people trying to make Christ's words fit their own concepts of what He meant.


I say -----I agree with this last statement here ---we humans love to take a piece of scripture and twist it to suit our own agenda ---
Click to expand...

It could be a consequence of us all being individually, autonomously and wonderfully made so as to return a spectre of experiences! Yet tyrants try and box it up as all uniform ... yet diversity explodes ... even in anaerobic conditions of the human swamp and cesspool! --- a sage called hyperbolically POGO! A light traveller owning and owing little ... besides this rover is not acknowledged by the presumption of power!
 
I am not surprised by your comment here -- ninjafaery -------it doesn't seem useful to read all that copy and paste scripture. I can hardly see your real comments in all that.

I say
It's OK I know we humans hate the truth of the scripture and so of course we need to present a cop out statement to down play the real truth of what God is saying ----

But here is the thing ----you may not want to grasp what is said in my post ---but if you notice on this sight many just read the posts and never comment -----and God knows a person.s heart we don.t----

Did you know God can change a hardened heart to a heart that will open their ears to hear and their eyes to see what the scripture is saying ------the word inbirths the right Faith so that what is said can be grasp ---Jesus preached in parables and this separated the sheep from the goats by His word ----so someone reading God's word may be touched by God to get it----just saying

Ezekiel 11:14-21 (AMP)
Promise of Restoration
19 And I will give them one heart [a new heart], and put a new spirit within them. I will take from them the heart of stone, and will give them a heart of flesh [that is responsive to My touch], 20 that they may walk in My statutes and keep My ordinances and do them.
 
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Back to less "theology"?
Baggage. What is that bloated thing that keeps us this side of the needle's eye? Our own refusal to let it go, to surrender. To leave room to be transformed. Can't do that trying to hang onto your treasures.
 
@unsafe I never doubt that you're sincere and genuine, and I want to apologize if I was harsh. Sorry.
 
Then there is the quandary of the Freudian Slip ... that slide into not knowing the mistakes made because of Canon BS! We on the outside of the circle of fractured truth ripple with laughter ...

Cracked Liberty Bells ... escaped from the domain that is laid out by lyon and Griffons?
 
ninjafaery ------you said ------I never doubt that you're sincere and genuine, and I want to apologize if I was harsh. Sorry.

There is no need to apologise ----I never thought you were being harsh at all ---you are entitled to your thoughts and feelings about my posts -----so no worries there -----I am well aware there are many on here who don't like my posts ----and there are some on here that I myself ignore or just skim over --so please know I am OK with your reply to my post -----we all have our views and different beliefs when it comes to Theology ------we all post in different ways ---for me the Bible is Truth and for many it is not -----

I very much appreciate your comment here and I thank you for that ------I never doubt that you're sincere and genuine

I am sincere and genuine when I give my view on what a Scripture is saying Spiritually to me -----when I quote scripture it is to back up what I am saying and I always try to give the resource where I got it from --so one can check it out for themselves -----

So Peace and God Bless :)

Now back to thread topic
 
Carolla said:
@Kimmio - when I say "acquire", I'm simply saying that it is something that develops or occurs - not that it is sought after. Such as in 'acquired brain injury' which is a commonly accepted term - not a sought after circumstance/outcome, but one that does happen. Generational poverty and acquired poverty are quite different IMO, and in any literature I have read. And I agree - life is generally not a meritocracy - becoming less so as we see the post-war 'middle class' eroding.
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Do you actually think the post-war middle class was a meritocracy? A fair and deserved one?

What judgments do you have about those with acquired poverty vs generational? If one comes from a fairly well off family who didn't pay their way as soon as they were 18 - didn't help them get anywhere with nepotism - do they deserve poverty?
 
ninjafaery said:
I just read recently....from an msn news feed or something, that the "rich" do not feel rich. It's highly subjective. You get used to having money and still have anxiety about having enough. Hard to switch to a mindset that feels gratitude. That's the eye of the needle IMO
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This. It's a societal problem too.
 
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