Novel Coronavirus

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Northwind said:
We are far from being in a totalitarian regime. I suppose we could go back to "normal" and to hell with the people we sacrifice with that move. Do we want to live in a society that wants to sacrifice vulnerable people for money? I mean more than we do already.
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It’s not for money. That damage is largely done. The economic fallout will already be devastating considering how many small businesses and non essential businesses have had to close for good or may never get back on track, and how many have been laid off.

I am concerned about the social consequences. People are so oppressed by this virulent response to this bug that people will just not be generally healthy after the fact. The anxiety, stress, depression, domestic abuse, lack of basic human affection. Kids, I think are going to have the worst emotional/ developmental consequences from this lockdown.
 
Northwind said:
The numbers are low here because of these measures.
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Maybe, or maybe covid already mostly blew through BC in Jan-Feb and a large number people are immune. I’ve talked to others who think they may have had it then. BC is on the pacific rim and there are steady travellers between here and China. In China, cases could’ve been happening since November if they knew about it in December. Maybe we’re already a seeing round two mutation and people have some immunity from the first round. We don’t know. They need to test for that.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
A lot of people are not getting treatment now. They cleared everything for an explosion of covid hospital patients, converted most gps to dial-a-docs, and people are terrified to go to the ER for anything else. And here, where I live, given the numbers, it makes no sense.
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People are being treated for urgent things. I'm going to a clinic 2x/week still. I have an appointment with my Internist face to face later this month (I spoke with him yesterday about bloodwork and asked about that too quickly), and that's still currently the plan although I do realize I might hear differently closer to the date.
We're at the beginning of this. If the numbers stay as they are where you are, I highly doubt restrictions would stay in place, even if other parts of BC remain affected. People calling the shots right now are learning some of this as they go.

I think with a push to get a vaccine that may happen faster than predicted. Perhaps not for everyone, but there's a pretty big focus on it. Things are likely going to be in flux for a while until at least particular populations are vaccinated. Once that happens we can start to settle into a normal routine - I don't say back to normal as there will be long-term implications.
 
So you'd rather just cull the weak then @Kimmio Laughterlove ? That's what will happen.

I realize it is a no win situation in many ways. There will be mental health and social consequences to letting this run its course too. People will have long term health effects from the illness. Many will die. Hospitals will be overwhelmed which means others will die because they could not access health care in an emergency. It would result in a cull.
 
ChemGal said:
People are being treated for urgent things. I'm going to a clinic 2x/week still. I have an appointment with my Internist face to face later this month (I spoke with him yesterday about bloodwork and asked about that too quickly), and that's still currently the plan although I do realize I might hear differently closer to the date.
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I am still getting treatment. I don't need to see my doctors in person. That option is there though if needed. I will be getting a CT scan tomorrow and bone scan next week. I will be getting bloodwork done. I had an infusion of a drug to protect my bones. It was done at the hospital. People are getting chemo and necessary cancer surgeries.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
It’s not for money. That damage is largely done. The economic fallout will already be devastating considering how many small businesses and non essential businesses have had to close for good or may never get back on track, and how many have been laid off.

I am concerned about the social consequences. People are so oppressed by this virulent response to this bug that people will just not be generally healthy after the fact. The anxiety, stress, depression, domestic abuse, lack of basic human affection. Kids, I think are going to have the worst emotional/ developmental consequences from this lockdown.
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There's a pandemic. There are going to be effects from that beyond people getting sick from it no matter what. I think the current response is better than having no changes.
From what I see, many kids are doing great. I think they would be doing worse if we tried to carry on like things were normal.
 
Northwind said:
So you'd rather just cull the weak then @Kimmio Laughterlove ? That's what will happen.

I realize it is a no win situation in many ways. There will be mental health and social consequences to letting this run its course too. People will have long term health effects from the illness. Many will die. Hospitals will be overwhelmed which means others will die because they could not access health care in an emergency. It would result in a cull.
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No. I would like effective antivirals - which seems more likely to happen sooner - to be available before they get a vaccine started in 18 months. I would like there to be wide testing for immunity.

There are multiple illnesses people can get sick from. Is that “culling the weak”? Culling the weak is making people endure this where it’s not necessary - people who are already on the margins of society - and doing long term damage to children and public health in general.
 
I also expect that some of the decisions that are being made won't be the most ideal ones. That's pretty hard to do. We will look back and realize some things that could have been handled better. I do think a significant number of the decision makers are doing the best with what they do know though. Things that can be adjusted as we go along, will be.
 
ChemGal said:
There's a pandemic. There are going to be effects from that beyond people getting sick from it no matter what. I think the current response is better than having no changes.
From what I see, many kids are doing great. I think they would be doing worse if we tried to carry on like things were normal.
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That is yet to be seen. Maybe kids in suburban Edmonton are doing great.
 
Kimmio this is a pandemic. It is much more far reaching than any other illness we have seen. It is NOT a minor event. Yes, there are many illnesses people can get sick with. This is NOT either/or. It's both/and. Right now the world is in crisis. The focus will be on health.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
No. I would like effective antivirals - which seems more likely to happen sooner - to be available before they get a vaccine started in 18 months. I would like there to be wide testing for immunity.

There are multiple illnesses people can get sick from. Is that “culling the weak”? Culling the weak is making people endure this where it’s not necessary - people who are already on the margins of society - and doing long term damage to children and public health in general.
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I don't actually have a huge hope for an effective antiviral that's going to make a dramatic change to this. We have antivirals for other diseases. They only do so much. It's because of how viruses work vs. something like bacteria. We're in a better position to get a good response from a vaccine. I'm not an expert, but that's what I think is the most likely to make a big difference in managing this.
 
The long term damage has to be worth the actual short term death rate. If it’s actually small compared to the number of infections, and limited to a small percentage of the very elderly who have already far exceeded the average lifespan and would’ve likely died from other infections, and a few (but not the majority) with underlying illness we are doing this from distorted facts.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
The long term damage has to be worth the actual short term death rate. If it’s actually small compared to the number of infections, we are doing this from distorted facts.
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What would the long term damage be if a ton of people all got sick right now? If the overall number of deaths would be much higher? If emergency rooms were overflowing? If huge numbers of doctors, nurses and others working in healthcare were sick?
 
Imagine kids in a class where a teacher died, and significant number had older relatives who died, some had parents die, many had parents too sick to properly care for them, all within a short time frame. Stress, drinking, violence, etc. also goes up as large numbers of people get sick.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
The long term damage has to be worth the actual short term death rate. If it’s actually small compared to the number of infections, and limited to a small percentage of the very elderly who have already far exceeded the average lifespan and would’ve likely died from other infections, and a few (but not the majority) with underlying illness we are doing this from distorted facts.
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Have you not read what we've written. This is NOT limited to old people. The only reason it looks like there are significantly more elderly people dying in BC is because it hit the care homes badly. The numbers in BC are skewed. Skewed. Younger people are dying. Health care people. People who work in stores and the like.

It really does look like you are in favour of a cull. Please show me I'm wrong. Help me to understand.
 
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