Lust of the flesh, porn, erotica........

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I don't really think that there is much disagreement with the idea that "mainstream" commercial visual porn has serious problems vis a vis exploitation and degradation of women. That's almost a given.

But what about independent female creators? Women in charge both in front of and behind the camera posting to female-owned websites. Yes, it is commercial in that the sites charge, usually on a subscription basis, but it's not part of the traditional porn industry and it's not male-dominant. No, it's not the norm but it exists on the Internet.

What about literary porn/erotica, which is, IME, dominated by women, both readers and writers. Maya Banks and Lora Leigh have made serious bank writing what many (at least on the prudish right) would call pornography, even if the accepted literary term is "erotic romance" or just "erotica".

And the site I write for is probably majority female writers though I don't have numbers to back that up. Certainly many of the most prominent and successful (in terms of views, contest wins, popularity, etc.) writers on the site are women and the site is owned by a woman.

I guess what I am asking is if we can leave aside the porn that everyone agrees is "sinful" in my UU sense that it does not respect the inherent worth and dignity of the women in front of the camera and look at what porn might not be sinful. Is there acceptable "porn"? What would be the criteria? Can visual media porn, big studio or indie, ever fit that criteria or is it something that would probably only fit written material?

Or are we going the so-con route and saying you can't ever write/create stories that explicitly explore human sexuality without somehow exploiting or degrading someone; that it is all "sinful"?

I reject the last, in case you can't guess.
 
Mendalla said:
And is, to my mind, sexier and more interesting because of that. The human imagination is the sexiest medium.
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Harder to enter though ... if you consider the absolute determinate steerage in real life! The abstract just isn't in their world!

If the sol is imaginary the absolutes lost it to loose ends ... what they refer to as the hind or Eric ... he slipping over the mounds lightly ...
 
Then you have Jesus telling us it would be a sin to lust after someone even in our hearts:

Mathew 5:27-28

How to keep the Christians in line and I suppose Islam and other religions. Is it still porn and erotica if you can only fantasize about your wife or husband? Or is it only more exciting when our imagination or reality, can include others?
 
Waterfall said:
Then you have Jesus telling us it would be a sin to lust after someone even in our hearts:

Mathew 5:27-28

How to keep the Christians in line and I suppose Islam and other religions. Is it still porn and erotica if you can only fantasize about your wife or husband? Or is it only more exciting when our imagination or reality, can include others?
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Consider what's in psyche an ignored abstraction ... minds are rarely read into ... there are those that define the psyche as not here and now ... thus grossly void ...

Allows an alien place to put it as one old lady told me years ago! Be witching ...
 
I don't think it's possible to never fantasize about anyone else. It is possible to keep it to yourself and not emotionally injure your partner by making them feel inadequate or, worse, letting the fantasy become pervasive and actually cheating on them, or neglecting them because of a pervasive fantasy.
 
Some fantasies best remain so. Not just for the reasons you describe, but because the reality simply may not live up. I have heard of couples living out fantasies like having a threesome and simply having it not live up to their imagination. Others find it does and and make the fantasy part of their sexual routine, e.g. swingers. It is very YMMV.
 
Someone I know who was adventurous and you might think would be the last person to have her heart broken over a threesome, did. Her friend and her boyfriend carried on behind her back a few times - after she felt like she obliged him, put her trust in him that they'd get through it - she was betrayed by both of them. Even the bravest "swingers" can get hurt. And what about if they had kids and this damaged their relationship, hence, their family?
 
Dark is often seen as evil ... thus the all knowing state is beauty in that domain ... overriding the good, bad and ugly ... a cowboy show?

Is psyche discrete ... as almost never seen ... and often not encountered by those denying the existence ... allows for those of us believing in what appears as nothing ... the desire to know of great things and all that is stuffed there ... in the most lustful state there is no sense of a 4 way balance ... 4 walls and 4 horses just an icon of something other! Thus they ride off over the visual horizon ... makes for a novel myth! A love ripper?
 
I think age does a number on lust and erotica. When I was young and up to menopause's completion I would have enjoyed(and I did) reading books that included more sexual exploits and erotica than I would now. Perhaps for some (the young) that's a sad testament, but it's been replaced with a more quiet comfort of "knowing" my partner and while hugs and love have always been important, sex has taken on a different level towards fulfillment that may place more emphasis on a spiritual inclusion, which seems to be a level up from merely sexual....it's not lacking, just different. I seem to sense this may not change so much for older males? Possibly why some older men trade in their wives for a younger version? They long for the new and spontaneous, adventerous female? I'm not a male so not sure. When I read of Jesus' "laws" regarding adultery, even his commands may reflect a possibly celibate man's perspective.(of course there is speculation he wasn't celibate)
Maybe time changes the meaning of sexiness for some.
 
Waterfall said:
When I read of Jesus' "laws" regarding adultery, even his commands may reflect a possibly celibate man's perspective.
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Agreed. And, in spite of my remarks about "Jesus-porn" upthread, I do think he was probably celibate (Well, as celibate as any human can be. It's my guess that a lot of self-pleasure happened in monastic cells, maybe even some covert man-man action). Which was also the perspective of the guy who drafted the original model for the seven deadly sins. We need to get away from a world where celibacy is honoured as a higher path. It should be a valid path for those who seek it or who are asexual, but not honoured above others.
 
Waterfall said:
I think age does a number on lust and erotica. When I was young and up to menopause's completion I would have enjoyed(and I did) reading books that included more sexual exploits and erotica than I would now. Perhaps for some (the young) that's a sad testament, but it's been replaced with a more quiet comfort of "knowing" my partner and while hugs and love have always been important, sex has taken on a different level towards fulfillment that may place more emphasis on a spiritual inclusion, which seems to be a level up from merely sexual....it's not lacking, just different. I seem to sense this may not change so much for older males? Possibly why some older men trade in their wives for a younger version? They long for the new and spontaneous, adventurous female? I'm not a male so not sure. When I read of Jesus' "laws" regarding adultery, even his commands may reflect a possibly celibate man's perspective.(of course there is speculation he wasn't celibate)
Maybe time changes the meaning of sexiness for some.
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Sectarian growth in psyche as one looks at this mystery from the other side/alternate's Ide? Spooky ...
 
Waterfall said:
Maybe time changes the meaning of sexiness for some.
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Oh, I think it does, for sure. I am very much into different things than I was when I was younger and not just sexually. Oddly, I would say based on my scribblings that I am probably a bit kinkier than I used to be, though that's only in fantasy, not practice.
 
Mendalla said:
Oh, I think it does, for sure. I am very much into different things than I was when I was younger and not just sexually. Oddly, I would say based on my scribblings that I am probably a bit kinkier than I used to be, though that's only in fantasy, not practice.
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Well I would say my younger years were fulfilling and active.....been there, done that, LOL!
 
I've been there done it too. Could write a steamy book about it. And there's one person I eventually committed to it all with and he's gone from my life except for Skype (and we ventured into virtual space adventure...um...once or twice... but it wasn't the same and I think we gave up on that too - I didn't feel the safety and trust I needed to feel...if he'd asked me to have virtual sex while we were married I would have but back then he had painted me in a corner and labelled me too "good" for such things.) - he left me before he left me...and really betrayed me just by the way he left. I want to go back in time to change a few moments and steer it back on track.. but it doesn't work like that. I thought we had a more spiritual connection but he was not honest with me...and I'm still not sure exactly what happened...so, not interested in sex very much anymore. Not to say nothing turns me on...but to actually be with someone again, he'd have to be very special and very well rounded and respectful to gain my trust - and if we're getting physical I'd have to find him physically attractive enough. I can't see that happening for me. It's one thing to stay in love with someone while things start to sag. I can do that. But I don't think I'll be in a new relationship ever again, specifically one that involves sex. I don't want to. It's not worth it. Sex isn't important enough.
 
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I have been open to all manner of difference in my encounters with others. I make no gender distinctions. What I appreciate in all persons is character. Who the person is as a person.
 
Kimmio Laughterlove said:
I've been there done it too. Could write a steamy book about it. And there's one person I eventually committed to it all with and he's gone from my life except for Skype (and we ventured into virtual space adventure...um...once or twice... but it wasn't the same and I think we gave up on that too - I didn't feel the safety and trust I needed to feel...if he'd asked me to have virtual sex while we were married I would have but back then he had painted me in a corner and labelled me too "good" for such things.) - he left me before he left me...and really betrayed me just by the way he left. I want to go back in time to change a few moments and steer it back on track.. but it doesn't work like that. I thought we had a more spiritual connection but he was not honest with me...and I'm still not sure exactly what happened...so, not interested in sex very much anymore. Not to say nothing turns me on...but to actually be with someone again, he'd have to be very special and very well rounded and respectful to gain my trust - and if we're getting physical I'd have to find him physically attractive enough. I can't see that happening for me. It's one thing to stay in love with someone while things start to sag. I can do that. But I don't think I'll be in a new relationship ever again, specifically one that involves sex. I don't want to. It's not worth it. Sex isn't important enough.
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Never say never Kimmio! You have so much to offer towards a relationship if you want to IMO. You're cool :giggle:
 
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