Bible Study Thread: Luke

[paradox3]

Does anyone think Jesus is being a tad hypocritical by withholding grace from the
pharisee?

No, not really. Over and over in scripture we are seeing grace tied to repentance. Although we did discuss the lost sheep and the lost coin being found with no element of repentance.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Does anyone think Jesus is being a tad hypocritical by withholding grace from the
pharisee?

No. He was making a legitimate critical observation about the content of their prayer. The tax collector was communicating with humility and an open-ness to change. The "Pharisee" (this was the group that would go on to become the rabbinical Judaism we know today, because the Sadduccees were the Temple) was communicating in a spirit of being better than the tax collector. That sort of gratitude is the ungraceful sort.

 

[Waterfall]

No. He was making a legitimate critical observation about the content of their prayer. The tax collector was communicating with humility and an open-ness to change. The "Pharisee" (this was the group that would go on to become the rabbinical Judaism we know today, because the Sadduccees were the Temple) was communicating in a spirit of being better than the tax collector. That sort of gratitude is the ungraceful sort.

And how will those who exalted themselves be humbled?

 

[paradox3]

This is post-Paul, Paul the Roman Jew who convinced the early church that they could eat what they wished, and not circumcise Gentile men as a condition of membership.

Do we know the stance taken by Jesus on either of these things? Or are the gospels silent on these questions?

We studied a passage earlier that had Jesus saying it was not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person. . . I had always understood this to be a critique of the Jewish dietary laws but no one held that view on the thread IIRC

And we have the sayings of Jesus about fulfilling the law and the prophets rather than abolishing them. I seem to remember that Matthew phrased this the most emphatically.

Jesus wanted reasonableness to be considered as part of Sabbath observance. That stands out.

 

[paradox3]

And how will those who exalted themselves be humbled?

Could be a matter of losing their pride rather than being punished.

 

[Waterfall]

Could be a matter of losing their pride rather than being punished.

Could be.

 

[Mendalla]

We studied a passage earlier that had Jesus saying it was not what goes into the mouth that defiles a person. . . I had always understood this to be a critique of the Jewish dietary laws but no one held that view on the thread IIRC

I wouldn't see it so much as a critique of the dietary laws per se as the attitude to them. One can observe them and still be unclean or break them and still be clean because of how one approaches and understands them.

The tax collector was communicating with humility and an open-ness to change. The "Pharisee" (this was the group that would go on to become the rabbinical Judaism we know today, because the Sadduccees were the Temple) was communicating in a spirit of being better than the tax collector. That sort of gratitude is the ungraceful sort.

I think a lot of this ties to the story (forget where it is) where the rich man makes a big show of his donation and the poor widow quietly gives a small amount that is, proportionate to her means, a lot more valuable.

Jesus seems to value humility before God and I get the point. I am humbled before the majesty of Creation. If one believes in a transcendent Creator, how much more majestic must that Creator be. How can one be proud of oneself before that which is greater than all things?

 

[paradox3]

I wouldn't see it so much as a critique of the dietary laws per se as the attitude to them. One can observe them and still be unclean or break them and still be clean because of how one approaches and understands them.

Well said!

 

[GordW]

Author Amy-Jill Levine, who I mentioned earlier, thinks we Christians need to reconsider how we view the Pharisees.

Certainly Jesus is critical of their hypocrisy but there are a few places in scripture where they are presented in a positive light.

Anyways, I think it is worth asking who we consider to be the present day equivalent of the Pharisee and the tax collector in today's story.

Maybe we can only conclude we have elements of both within our hearts.

It has been suggested that the Pharisee party was a group within 1st Century Judaism that had a lot in common with the Jesus movement. Which would account for some of the conflict language we see in the Gospels. Competing parties with a lot of similarities can fight pretty viciously to differentiate themselves.

 

[paradox3]

Summary: Luke 18: 15 - 30

1. People were bringing even infants to Jesus and the disciples tried to order them away. But Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not stop them, for it is to such as these that the kingdom of God belongs. Truly I tell you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God as a little child will never enter it."

2. A certain ruler asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life. Jesus responded, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments . . . "

The ruler replied that he had kept all the commandments from his youth.

Jesus stated there was still one thing missing. The ruler must sell all his possessions and give the money to the poor. It is very difficult for those who have wealth to enter the kingdom of God.

Those listening remarked, "Then who can be saved?"

Jesus replied, "What is impossible for mortals is possible for God."

Peter protested, "Look, we have left our homes and followed you."

Jesus answered that anyone who has done this will get back much in this age and in the age to come, eternal life."

 

[paradox3]

Reflection: Luke 18: 15 - 30

What does it mean to be as little children? Innocent? Naive? Trusting? Dependent? Playful? Learning new things every day?

Why is it said to be so difficult for those with wealth to enter the kingdom of God? Just as the people despair about who will possibly be saved, Jesus reassures them that God can do what mortals are unable to do.

Is this a message about the need to trust in God and God's judgement? It seems to me that this theme keeps recurring in Luke's gospel.

When Peter remarks that the disciples have left their homes to follow Jesus, they are reassured that they will receive much in return, including eternal life.

How wonderful it must have been for the disciples to receive this validation from their leader! They are so often rebuked for misunderstanding Jesus and have just been told to change their approach to the little children being brought to Him.

 

[GordW]

What does it mean to be as little children? Innocent? Naive? Trusting? Dependent? Playful? Learning new things every day?

The related question for me is "when are we being childlike as opposed to simply childish? I think Jesus is encouraging the former, many of us are often good at the latter.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Reflection: Luke 18: 15 - 30

What does it mean to be as little children? Innocent? Naive? Trusting? Dependent? Playful? Learning new things every day?

there is also a spiritual element here that I do not think has been addressed, we are like children being taught, not only of the spiritual realm, a realm that we cannot see, so we trust like we trust our parents teaching us of the pitfalls and the good of this world.

we are also taught of our own personal makeup, of how we function and the relationship of body, soul & spirit.

we are children & students and we grow to maturity eventually

 

[paradox3]

we are children & students and we grow to maturity eventually

Very true but I don't see Jesus emphasizing the maturity aspect in this text.

 

[paradox3]

Why did Jesus say no one is good but God alone?

How do those who believe Jesus was actually God in human form reconcile this text with their theology? Would they say this is the human side of His nature speaking rather than the Divine?

 

[blackbelt1961]

Very true but I don't see Jesus emphasizing the maturity aspect in this text.

not in the passage, you posted no, but scripture does say it later on, plus no one remains children forever unless we live in OZ and were munchkins

 

[blackbelt1961]

Why did Jesus say no one is good but God alone?

because God is the embodiment of what Good Is, God is Light and in him, there is no darkness, but for the rest of us we are a mixture of both dark and light, evil and good.

evil is the absence of all that which Good is

How do those who believe Jesus was actually God in human form reconcile this text with their theology? Would they say this is the human side of His nature speaking rather than the Divine?

we are not like Jesus, we were born in sin , from humanity, inherited, Jesus was not born from humanity but Begotten from God Himself

 

[unsafe]

Todays Scripture

Luke 18:15-30 GW

Jesus Blesses Children
15 Some people brought infants to Jesus to have him hold them. When the disciples saw this, they told the people not to do that.

16 But Jesus called the infants to him and said, “Don’t stop the children from coming to me! Children like these are part of God’s kingdom. 17 I can guarantee this truth: Whoever doesn’t receive God’s kingdom as a little child receives it will never enter it.”

Eternal Life in the Kingdom
18 An official asked Jesus, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

19 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God. 20 You know the commandments: Never commit adultery. Never murder. Never steal. Never give false testimony. Honor your father and your mother.”

21 The official replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was a boy.”

22 When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still need one thing. Sell everything you have. Distribute the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then follow me!”

23 When the official heard this, he became sad, because he was very rich. 24 Jesus watched him and said, “How hard it is for rich people to enter God’s kingdom! 25 Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter God’s kingdom.”

26 Those who heard him asked, “Who, then, can be saved?”

27 Jesus said, “The things that are impossible for people to do are possible for God to do.”

28 Then Peter said, “We’ve left everything to follow you.”

29 Jesus said to them, “I can guarantee this truth: Anyone who gave up his home, wife, brothers, parents, or children because of God’s kingdom 30 will certainly receive many times as much in this life and will receive eternal life in the world to come.”


unsafe says -----this is how I see the spiritual side of this scripture ----Verses 15-17

Children when born are in fact born with the sin nature ------but here is the thing -------In God's eyes these little ones are innocent as they do not know right from wrong yet and so they have no concept of what committing a sin is all about until they get to that age of understanding totally what behaviour is right and what is wrong ------so Jesus delights in blessing these little ones by laying on of hands -------His Agape radiates when He has children around Him

unsafe says ---this is why I believe in the age of accountability where sin is not imputed by God on these little ones until they are old enough to understand what the concept of right and wrong and sin is all about -----

unsafe posting -----Greek word for innocent ----

Strong's Concordance
dikaios: correct, righteous, by impl. innocent
Original Word: δίκαιος, ία, ιον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: dikaios
Phonetic Spelling: (dik'-ah-yos)
Definition: correct, righteous, by implication innocent




Verses 18-30 ----Spiritual side of this scripture for me ----this is all about Riches and Discipleship ----

We see an official comes to ask Jesus what he must do to have eternal life and he calls Jesus a good teachers here -----Jesus answers him with this statement ----

19 Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God.

Verse 20 is still answering the officials question of how to have eternal life -----We see the official says he has keep all the commands since he was a boy ----and then Jesus tells him to go sell all his belongings as he was a rich man and the man looses heart and walks off ----back to his stuff -----

unsafe says ---Being a Disciple of Jesus requires trust in God providing all that one needs to do the job God wants done ------worldly possessions are temporal -----you can't serve 2 masters ----your money --stuff and God ---one must choose who they want to serve -----the way to eternal life is very narrow -----Jesus is the eye of the needle who all must go through to have eternal life -----there is no other way ---the way to eternal torment is wide and many will travel the wide road -----the official chose the wide road -------

We have free will to choose -----

 

[paradox3]

we are not like Jesus, we were born in sin , from humanity, inherited, Jesus was not born from humanity but Begotten from God Himself

Sure, but why would Jesus have objected to being called good Himself?

The rich young ruler called Jesus "Good Teacher". (v. 18)

He responded, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone." (v. 19)

 

[blackbelt1961]

Why did Jesus say no one is good but God alone?

This is one of those examples one needs to read all the gospels to come to a proper understanding,

Luke 18:19 Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good--except God alone.

Jesus is asking Why do you call me good? , so why are people calling Jesus Good? if only God is Good?

To call Jesus Good is a claim to Divinity,,, so why did they call Jesus good?,,,,

This is why, because in John 14:10 Jesus calls Himself "The Good Sheppard"

so in other words :::::

No-one except God is good and Jesus is good therefore Jesus is God

How do those who believe Jesus was actually God in human form reconcile this text with their theology? Would they say this is the human side of His nature speaking rather than the Divine?

answered above