The Gospel of Mark

[Jaebius]

Think, Jae, Think. It would dissuade from even trying to follow after God. If the decision is God's, and is already made, nothing we decide or nothing we do can change it. If God has decided we are doomed, then helping all the elderly in the universe across the busy streets isn't going to help us. If God had decided we are 'elect', then teargassing all the migrant women and children who happen to be on the wrong side of an international border isn't going to hurt our chances. There's absolutely no motivation for change or repentance or transformation, if the decision is already rendered by forces beyond our control. We're just automotons, going through the motions.

Redbaron, I believe that when someone is chosen to follow God, that's just what they're chosen to do - follow God.

Said following absolutely incorporates things like repenting, participating in Church, serving others, and being strengthened through God's Word and sacraments.

It also includes renunciation of the ways of the world.

For the record, I do not believe that God decides to doom certain people. That's an extreme Calvinist notion which I don't hold.

 

[unsafe]

Mendalla ------Your quote ------unsafe said: ↑ or if it was just his way to connect with them using words that matched their occupation

unsafe posted ------definition of a lie ------
verb (used without object), lied, ly·ing.

1. to speak falsely or utter untruth knowingly, as with intent to deceive.

unsafe says ------I did not make this statement that you quoted me saying therefore you have made a false statement knowing that I didn't say this statement -----I quoted an article and if that is where you got this statement from then it is the article that said it NOT ME ---so you are in fact knowingly deceiving people who may read your quote and think I did say this statement when in fact I did not -----

So you are lying Mendalla -------If you have a problem with what the article says then talk to them not me and don't say I said a thing when I didn't say it ---I posted it from the link provided ---------

 

[paradox3]

Mark 2:18-22 New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Question about Fasting
18 Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and people came and said to him, “Why do John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?” 19 Jesus said to them, “The wedding guests cannot fast while the bridegroom is with them, can they? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. 20 The days will come when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast on that day.

21 “No one sews a piece of unshrunk cloth on an old cloak; otherwise, the patch pulls away from it, the new from the old, and a worse tear is made. 22 And no one puts new wine into old wineskins; otherwise, the wine will burst the skins, and the wine is lost, and so are the skins; but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins.”

Footnotes:

1. Mark 2:18 Gk they
2. Mark 2:22 Other ancient authorities lack but one puts new wine into fresh wineskins

 

[unsafe]

Jae -----this is what the Bible says about how you are saved --------

Romans 10:9-10 (GW)
9 If you declare that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God brought him back to life, you will be saved. 10 By believing you receive God’s approval, and by declaring your faith you are saved.

unsafe says
No infant can declare Jesus is Lord ------no infinite can have Faith that God brought him back to life ----so no infant can be save Jae ---

An infant can't declare their faith in the above because an infant can't speak yet Jae -----and saving Faith comes from Hearing God's word -----which an infant can't do yet ------

So your Grasping at straws with your infant salvation Jae ------

the word declare meaning ------
de·clare
/diˈkler/
verb

1. 1.
   say something in a solemn and emphatic manner.

 

[paradox3]

Reflection Mark 2:18-22

From 2:17 we can see that the question in 2:18 is posed to Jesus.

His response about the bridegroom has always puzzled me, but it seems like a foreshadowing of His crucifixion. "The days will come", He says.

Why would Jesus use the allegory of a wedding to refer to his time with the disciples or his ministry? Because it is something to celebrate? Something out of the ordinary? This story falls very early in his ministry. . . maybe the church as it is later established could be considered the actual "marriage."

But this feels like stretching to find meaning.

And what of the new cloth and the new wineskins? I have heard them interpreted many times as the New Covenant. Could they simply mean renewal?

Back to fasting. The guests at the wedding do not fast when the bridegroom is with them. John's disciples are fasting while he is in prison. Why are the Pharisees fasting? Are they trying to display their piety? Does anyone know what the Torah says about fasting?

Lots to consider in a few verses.

 

[Luce NDs]

So effectively random from a human standpoint.

Fits with the theory of irrationality! Thus fuzzy words ...

 

[paradox3]

It seems that the Torah only mentions Yom Kippur as a designated day for fasting.

 

[Luce NDs]

So... we have free will, but we don't? Reminds me of your saying that to be saved everyone need choose Jesus, except for those too young to. What theological gymnastics stem from decision theology.

This is known as a paradox, enigma, or alternate puzzle in the theory of unknowns and fuzzy flyby motions of allegories!

More bloodied scroo' win about ... with words as conjured! Parallel inky well ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Dissuade someone from what exactly Bette?

You don;t know? ...

 

[Luce NDs]

It seems that the Torah only mentions Yom Kippur as a designated day for fasting.

Possibly something to do with salted and smoking fissures?

Thus the book of unknown passions that fall upon you in the dark ... in Tarzan's case that'd be Jaynism ... or some "epi" spell!

Epi --- it meant “upon,” “on,” “over,” “near,” “at,” “before,” “after” like God all over dep lace ...​

 

[Redbaron]

Said following absolutely incorporates things like repenting, participating in Church, serving others, and being strengthened through God's Word and sacraments.

If 'said following' absolutely incorporates those things, then humans are STILL automatons, still going through the motions. The human race becomes more like the Tinker Toys of God, rather than the People of God.

 

[Luce NDs]

Redbaron, I believe that when someone is chosen to follow God, that's just what they're chosen to do - follow God.

Said following absolutely incorporates things like repenting, participating in Church, serving others, and being strengthened through God's Word and sacraments.

It also includes renunciation of the ways of the world.

For the record, I do not believe that God decides to doom certain people. That's an extreme Calvinist notion which I don't hold.

It is all in that isolated book ... right? Did the Gospel of John hint at a slew of alternate books and thus John's head was declared removed by rule of the book ... without due consideration beyond the simple case! Such is conjuring beyond the orthodox closed circe ... kind out in alien domains ... like heavens ta bete Ci!

 

[Luce NDs]

If 'said following' absolutely incorporates those things, then humans are STILL automatons, still going through the motions. The human race becomes more like the Tinker Toys of God, rather than the People of God.

Good Lord can one conjure explete from that as exiting the house ... thus we goes when learning far out information ... alien intellect?

Some Christian nations cultivate hate for strangers neighbours and just about anything in the unknown realm as a split in this darker thingy ... mentally it may be polymorphic ... bait for whatever therein ...

Such words can depose some essences from within ... and therefore without!

Like from out there life may be an illuminated gas ... phosphorescence? Applied ATP?

Those alternate fields in the obscure darker ...

 

[Jaebius]

Jae -----this is what the Bible says about how you are saved --------

Romans 10:9-10 (GW)
9 If you declare that Jesus is Lord, and believe that God brought him back to life, you will be saved. 10 By believing you receive God’s approval, and by declaring your faith you are saved.

unsafe says
No infant can declare Jesus is Lord ------no infinite can have Faith that God brought him back to life ----so no infant can be save Jae ---

An infant can't declare their faith in the above because an infant can't speak yet Jae -----and saving Faith comes from Hearing God's word -----which an infant can't do yet ------

So your Grasping at straws with your infant salvation Jae ------

the word declare meaning ------
de·clare
/diˈkler/
verb

1. 1.
   say something in a solemn and emphatic manner.

While I don't believe that you've actually addressed my most recent comments to you unsafe, I will nonetheless respond to yours here to me.

First, to "declare" something need not mean "to speak with words" unsafe. If it did - pity the mute. We can also declare through the ways in which we live.

Second, most infants will mature, and most with faith can then declare it using spoken words should they desire to.

Third, most infants are certainly capable of hearing God's Word when it is read aloud. I did, and am thankful for God's saving grace.

 

[Jaebius]

If 'said following' absolutely incorporates those things, then humans are STILL automatons, still going through the motions. The human race becomes more like the Tinker Toys of God, rather than the People of God.

No automatons. Simply that a faithful Christian life requires people choosing once they are Christians to be faithful to God.

 

[Luce NDs]

No automatons. Simply that a faithful Christian life requires people choosing once they are Christians to be faithful to God.

God which is everything but some out-ists demand eliminating the boundary portions ... fringe virtue?

I,E. that which is out there .... Farce Ide ...

 

[Redbaron]

No automatons. Simply that a faithful Christian life requires people choosing once they are Christians to be faithful to God.

'Once they are Christians?' If the choice is God's, when does THAT happen? If they're already'in', why bother to repoent or change, if it makes no difference in God's previously- determined decision?

 

[Mendalla]

@Jae , @Redbaron , @unsafe , are you going to relate all this back to Mark at some point?

 

[Jaebius]

'Once they are Christians?' If the choice is God's, when does THAT happen? If they're already'in', why bother to repoent or change, if it makes no difference in God's previously- determined decision?

For each elect individual, it happens at a time of God's Sovereign choice. Repentance and sanctification is important lest any saved one shipwreck their faith and fall away from salvation.

"Approach ye to God, and he shall approach to you. Ye sinners, cleanse ye the hands, and ye double in soul, purge ye the hearts." - James 4:8 (WYC).

 

[Mendalla]

I am not entirely sure about the teaching on fasting. Jesus seems to be saying that his presence is cause for celebration and that overrides the requirement to fast. Which, if one accepts that he is God incarnate, might make sense. Certainly, it seems to once again be a rebuke to the authorities strict legalistic approach to the law.

The sayings about old cloth and new garments and new wine in old skins seem a easier. He is saying that old ways must be abandoned completely or you risk damaging/contaminating the new ways. Given that there are no references to covenant here, it's speculation to say that's what it refers to. It could also refer to a new way of living the law versus the one being taught and enforced by the temple authorities.

You could take it broader, too, by reading it as a message about the need for a "clean start" rather than carrying bit of the past into our new life, perhaps after we are "born again".