89 chapter project: Matthew

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
paradox3 -------unsafe says ------the Bible is a Spiritual Book ----everything in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation pertains to God's Plan of Salvation ---it is not helpful to disregard others who have accepted Christ and who rely on the Holy Spirit to help see the truth behind the words ---you have said that what I wrote is not relevant to the Parable ---and then you accuse me of not being helpful ----

it is the pot calling the kettle black -----the spiritual truth behind the Parable in the vineyard is Salvation ----Period +++++ --- and the groups are the Jews and the Gentiles being portrayed ----now you can go on and on and on all you want to but that will not change the Spiritual meaning of this parable -----

First off you need to know what the word Vineyard is in Greek -------it is a vine -----Jesus is the Vine we are the branches ------that is the first clue this parable is about Salvation ------

unsafe posting
HELPS Word-studies

290 ampelṓn – properly, a vineyard; (figuratively) the religious, spiritual life of OT Israel – and by extension the body of Christ, consummating (not replacing) believing Israel as the one, covenant people of God (Mk 12:9; Lk 20:16).

unsafe says
The Jews are the tenants because they are the possessors of God's Grace of Salvation ---they were the chosen ones ------so they held the title deed to Salvation -----but they refused to believe in it -------

The Gentiles were never included in the Salvation package -----but they become the Servants of Christ because they were the last brought in to the field and they accepted the offer of Salvation when the Jews refused to -----this made the Jews jealous ---the equal pay made the tenants mad and Jealous -----which is why the Gentiles were brought in to the Salvation package -----Jesus hoped that the Jews would wake up and see they needed a Saviour to save them but they didn't and so the Gentiles were brought into the field to get the equal pay hoping to spark the Jews to accept who Jesus was which was about Salvation not the money --

The words tenant and servant do not have to appear physically in this parable -----there are there Spiritually when you see the truth -----
 
unsafe said:
paradox3 -------unsafe says ------the Bible is a Spiritual Book ----everything in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation pertains to God's Plan of Salvation ---it is not helpful to disregard others who have accepted Christ and who rely on the Holy Spirit to help see the truth behind the words ---you have said that what I wrote is not relevant to the Parable ---and then you accuse me of not being helpful ----

it is the pot calling the kettle black -----the spiritual truth behind the Parable in the vineyard is Salvation ----Period +++++ --- and the groups are the Jews and the Gentiles being portrayed ----now you can go on and on and on all you want to but that will not change the Spiritual meaning of this parable -----

First off you need to know what the word Vineyard is in Greek -------it is a vine -----Jesus is the Vine we are the branches ------that is the first clue this parable is about Salvation ------

unsafe posting
HELPS Word-studies

290 ampelṓn – properly, a vineyard; (figuratively) the religious, spiritual life of OT Israel – and by extension the body of Christ, consummating (not replacing) believing Israel as the one, covenant people of God (Mk 12:9; Lk 20:16).

unsafe says
The Jews are the tenants because they are the possessors of God's Grace of Salvation ---they were the chosen ones ------so they held the title deed to Salvation -----but they refused to believe in it -------

The Gentiles were never included in the Salvation package -----but they become the Servants of Christ because they were the last brought in to the field and they accepted the offer of Salvation when the Jews refused to -----this made the Jews jealous ---the equal pay made the tenants mad and Jealous -----which is why the Gentiles were brought in to the Salvation package -----Jesus hoped that the Jews would wake up and see they needed a Saviour to save them but they didn't and so the Gentiles were brought into the field to get the equal pay hoping to spark the Jews to accept who Jesus was which was about Salvation not the money --

The words tenant and servant do not have to appear physically in this parable -----there are there Spiritually when you see the truth -----
Click to expand...

And BTY

It's no different today a lot of Jewish leaders even refused to say the word Jesus or Messiah
 
I am more than a little skeptical when it comes to God having a plan to make the Jews jealous, unsafe. But I am getting a feel for how you interpret all of the vineyard parables and a Google search shows me you are not alone.

There are other interpretations available, however. We heard a sermon about Matthew 20:1-16 a few weeks ago and there was no mention whatsoever of Jews or Gentiles. The focus was on the choices God makes hiring and rewarding his laborers. Metaphorically speaking.
 
paradox3 said:
I am more than a little skeptical when it comes to God having a plan to make the Jews jealous, unsafe. But I am getting a feel for how you interpret all of the vineyard parables and a Google search shows me you are not alone.

There are other interpretations available, however. We heard a sermon about Matthew 20:1-16 a few weeks ago and there was no mention whatsoever of Jews or Gentiles. The focus was on the choices God makes hiring and rewarding his laborers. Metaphorically speaking.
Click to expand...
What greater reward can there possibly be other than having eternal life in the kingdom of God , I can't think of anything greater.

Mind you some who know exactly who God is would rather still rule in hell rather than serve in heaven.
 
blackbelt1961 said:
And BTY

It's no different today a lot of Jewish leaders even refused to say the word Jesus or Messiah
Click to expand...
If they are Jews I would not expect them to be interested in Jesus. Other than from the point of view of Christian: Jewish dialogue.

You have posted links to a few videos about Messianic Judaism and I know I have already suggested this would make a good thread of its own.

So I will just point out here that major Jewish denominations and the state of Israel do not recognize Messianic Jews as Jews. They are Christians in the eyes of these groups.
 
paradox3 said:
If they are Jews I would not expect them to be interested in Jesus. Other than from the point of view of Christian: Jewish dialogue.

You have posted links to a few videos about Messianic Judaism and I know I have already suggested this would make a good thread of its own.

So I will just point out here that major Jewish denominations and the state of Israel do not recognize Messianic Jews as Jews. They are Christians in the eyes of these groups.
Click to expand...

I agree with this you're right , Messianic Jews regardless of what the Jewish leaders themselves say are still Jews.

Scripture says that eventually Jewish people will come to the knowledge of Christ and we can see that happening more and more everyday thus my videos with the Messianic Jews.

There's also a woman I know from church she's Jewish she's obviously a believer in Christ she's in our church her brothers are rabbis back in Jerusalem they refused to speak to her for accepting Christ
 
Paradox3 ------ I am more than a little skeptical when it comes to God having a plan to make the Jews jealous, unsafe.

unsafe says --then you are more than skeptical about God and His word ------your unbelief is showing greatly -------

unsafe says ---you need to read the whole Chapter ------I am posting verse 11-12 ----like is provided

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 11 - GOD’S WORD Translation
Romans 11 (GW)
God’s Continuing Love for Jewish People

11 So I ask, “Has Israel stumbled so badly that it can’t get up again?” That’s unthinkable! By Israel’s failure, salvation has come to people who are not Jewish to make the Jewish people jealous.

12 The fall of the Jewish people made the world spiritually rich. Their failure made people who are not Jewish spiritually rich. So the inclusion of Jewish people will make the world even richer.
 
Hi,
blackbelt1961 said:
the Jewish people rejected him,
Click to expand...
Matthew, Peter, Andrew and Thomas were Jewish. As were Mary, Martha and Lazarus. So were many fed by Jesus on the hillside by Galilee. Jewish elites rejected Jesus. Not the exploited and the oppressed in the land. Gentile elites also rejected Jesus while common Gentiles welcomed the good news about Jesus.

It is wise to be aware of theological bias when reading and interpreting scripture.

George
 
BetteTheRed said:
This isn't exegesis. This is possibly the most tortured translation of this text that I have ever had the misfortune to consider. Could some revs please chime in on how bad this is? Just to start with, it introduces anti-Semitism into the text IN WHICH THERE IS NO HINT OF SAME.

Spiritual lens, my ass. You're looking through lenses smeared with Olsteen Prosperity Gospel bulls**t.
Click to expand...

My 20 won - the ERV is a pretty good version for children and for new English language learners. I would never suggest it for serious study beyond these groups.

Like you Bette, I would like to hear from the Revs on this.
 
GeoFee said:
Hi,
Matthew, Peter, Andrew and Thomas were Jewish. As were Mary, Martha and Lazarus. So were many fed by Jesus on the hillside by Galilee. Jewish elites rejected Jesus. Not the exploited and the oppressed in the land. Gentile elites also rejected Jesus while common Gentiles welcomed the good news about Jesus.

It is wise to be aware of theological bias when reading and interpreting scripture.

George
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right I was referring to the leaders not the entire Jewish people, which shows mostly in most of my post, if I missed it in a post or two it wasn't intentional
 
Last edited:
@unsafe. You are reading Paul's epistle to the Romans into the parables of Matthew's gospel, then?

I am not sure I agree with this approach. . . will think about it a little further. It might be another example of conflating two sources of wisdom.
 
unsafe said:
unsafe says --then you are more than skeptical about God and His word ------your unbelief is showing greatly -------
Click to expand...
It might reflect lack of familiarity with Romans more than any question of unbelief. I am still not sure if we should be reading the parables of Jesus through the lens of the epistles.
 
Especially before we bother to examine the historical attribution of said epistles...but ok, no...
 
Other things are so strange and evil to those that won;t approach the strange distances ... how God siscents keeps its distance ... preserving the isle of Maan in a dirty pool ... it goes round as an Old Sow!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top