89 chapter project: Matthew

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BetteTheRed said:
Pavlos, I have tried to have a conversation on quite a few occasions with unsafe about translations, paraphrases, different interpretive systems. I often start with the famous timshel story from East of Eden. Gets you nowhere. Words are slippery things to her. She likes to make them all mean exactly what she thinks they mean, and if there's a possible difference in opinion, hers is right. Blackbelt's rather sloppy relationship to scripture is similar. It seems odd to me that those who take scripture so literally also don't take it very seriously.
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I find it very interesting that atheist think they know more of scripture that believers do , then again you are a 21st Century person of rational mind, apparently Christians are not
 
blackbelt, the status of my "beliefs" in and around the concept of Divinity have nothing to do with my academically-inclined, lifelong study of scripture. There are three versions of the bible (an Oxford NSRV with Apocrypha, the Inclusive Bible and the Five Gospels) always within reach of my favourite spot at my desk. I question your commitment to any kind of academic rigour, further judge that people who can't be bothered learning should be less bothered about opinining... I am a Christian, just not a "born again, fundamentalist" sort who refuse to engage intellectually with their rather primitive and poorly thought out theological positions.
 
BetteTheRed said:
blackbelt, the status of my "beliefs" in and around the concept of Divinity have nothing to do with my academically-inclined, lifelong study of scripture. There are three versions of the bible (an Oxford NSRV with Apocrypha, the Inclusive Bible and the Five Gospels) always within reach of my favourite spot at my desk. I question your commitment to any kind of academic rigour, further judge that people who can't be bothered learning should be less bothered about opinining... I am a Christian, just not a "born again, fundamentalist" sort who refuse to engage intellectually with their rather primitive and poorly thought out theological positions.
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to you like Crossan, scripture is just literature, good literature, but non the less, just literature , to you there is no Objective Creator, separate from the subjective total sum.

bty , there is no such thing as a born-again fundamentalist, there simply spiritually alive to the reality of a real Objective Creator whos Spirit witness to the facts of 2000 yrs ago of the life , death and resurrection of Christ.

but then again you knew that you live in the 21st century

rolls eyes
 
Pavlos Maros

unsafe Says --------All you see with are Worldly Glasses which are broken to read the truth of God's word -----so all your worldly claims about Scripture are unsupported cause you have no idea how to read it properly ------only the Holy Spirit knows the truth behind the words -----


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and that is a BIG
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unsafe said:
Pavlos Maros

unsafe Says --------All you see with are Worldly Glasses which are broken to read the truth of God's word -----so all your worldly claims about Scripture are unsupported cause you have no idea how to read it properly ------only the Holy Spirit knows the truth behind the words -----


images





and that is a BIG
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------
images
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1 Corinthians 2:6-16

and I love the Holy Spirit

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paradox3 ----unsafe says -----A very Merry Christmas to you and yours ----Great Thread you have going here ---Please continue after HO! HO! COMES AND GOES ------BUT DON'T FORGET ---- Baby Jesus who was laid in a Feeding Trough to show He is our Spiritual Bread of Life ------Santa comes and then he is gone -----Jesus Never Leaves Us ------


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and From unsafe ----Merry Christmas to All -------:angel:
 
Re Matthew 21: I always thought it interesting that the religious authorities at the end of the chapter realized that Jesus was speaking about them. And, like many others before and since, rather than listen to the message, they decided to do in the messenger. Even though they succeeded in not hearing the message, the reality nonetheless remained.
 
Another astroturfing campaign. That is, an artificial campaign that is supposed to look like a grassroots movement, but is completely magnified to look like it's much bigger than it is. In this case, it's Evangelical Christians funding groups and videos like this one to convince Jews to become Messianic Jews. It's #walkaway for Jews, and it's one more example of Evangelicals being deceitful.
 
Redbaron said:
Re Matthew 21: I always thought it interesting that the religious authorities at the end of the chapter realized that Jesus was speaking about them. And, like many others before and since, rather than listen to the message, they decided to do in the messenger. Even though they succeeded in not hearing the message, the reality nonetheless remained.
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Why not shoot the messenger ... seems a decent opinion?
 
paradox3 ----the parable of the Vineyard -----the Spiritual message -----

Who owns the land -----
What does the vineyard represent ----
Who do the Tenants Represent ---
Who do the Servants Represent ----
And what is this saying -----for who are the last will be first and the first will be last

Tell me your take on these -----then I will comment ------:angel:
 
unsafe said:
paradox3 ----the parable of the Vineyard -----the Spiritual message -----

Who owns the land -----
What does the vineyard represent ----
Who do the Tenants Represent ---
Who do the Servants Represent ----
And what is this saying -----for who are the last will be first and the first will be last

Tell me your take on these -----then I will comment ------:angel:
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Please clarify which vineyard parable you are asking me about, unsafe.
 
unsafe said:
paradox3 ---- see post #643 page33 ------for clarification
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In post #643 we were discussing Matthew 20: 1-16, the parable of the workers in the vineyard. This is the story of all workers being paid one denarius at the end of the day regardless of the time they were hired and began working.

There are no tenants or servants in this parable, unsafe.
 
I often link it in my mind with that of the prodigal son, and see them both as the expected overflowing of god's grace in the world, despite how much those of us who have been 'good' feel obligated or entitled to lord it over those of us who have been not so well-behaved.
 
I only remember one my life hearing a sermon preached on this particular parable of the two sons – one who said he wouldn't help but then did; the other men who said he would but then didn't. A student minister (now called an intern) use this as his text once in the little church I attended as a child.

I remember being puzzled. I couldn't understand the two boys and their relationship with their father. For one thing I couldn't imagine a son (or daughter) saying 'no'if a parent asked them to do something. I wouldn't have dared to refuse – I would say yes and I would do it – perhaps sloppily, perhaps reluctantly, a poor job but what he asked for. So I couldn't relate to a son who refused the father's request and walked away. Not understanding how he could refuse his father, I find it difficult to accept that he could redeem himself in his father's eyes by going and doing the job later. The second son is easier to understand in that he said 'yes' to his father. He may have had good intentions, or he may simply have been afraid to refuse, but then he got distracted and left to do his own thing. Good intentions alone didn't get the harvest in. So in my eyes neither of these sons deserve praise for doing the will of the father. The right thing to do would have been to say yes, and then gladly go and do the best job they could. The only way a son could be considered to be doing the will of the father would be to say 'yes' and then go and do the job.
If I remember correctly (and I couldn't have been any more than 13 years old at the time) the minister's message was that works are sometimes more important than words. Just saying you'll do something, giving lip service, is not as important as actually doing it.
(It's not often a person remembers a particular sermon – especially over 50 years).

Now, looking at that same passage of Scripture, I agree with the minister – all we have sinned and come short of the glory of God, none of us are perfect. But what we do, how we respond to God's love, how we treat one another, matters. It matters more than just being agreeable and giving lip service.
 
BetteTheRed said:
I often link it in my mind with that of the prodigal son, and see them both as the expected overflowing of god's grace in the world, despite how much those of us who have been 'good' feel obligated or entitled to lord it over those of us who have been not so well-behaved.
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Well koin 'd as a satire ... otherwise metaphor! Gives that scent of deja Vous ...
 
Seeler said:
I only remember one my life hearing a sermon preached on this particular parable of the two sons – one who said he wouldn't help but then did; the other men who said he would but then didn't. A student minister (now called an intern) use this as his text once in the little church I attended as a child.

I remember being puzzled. I couldn't understand the two boys and their relationship with their father. For one thing I couldn't imagine a son (or daughter) saying 'no'if a parent asked them to do something. I wouldn't have dared to refuse – I would say yes and I would do it – perhaps sloppily, perhaps reluctantly, a poor job but what he asked for. So I couldn't relate to a son who refused the father's request and walked away. Not understanding how he could refuse his father, I find it difficult to accept that he could redeem himself in his father's eyes by going and doing the job later. The second son is easier to understand in that he said 'yes' to his father. He may have had good intentions, or he may simply have been afraid to refuse, but then he got distracted and left to do his own thing. Good intentions alone didn't get the harvest in. So in my eyes neither of these sons deserve praise for doing the will of the father. The right thing to do would have been to say yes, and then gladly go and do the best job they could. The only way a son could be considered to be doing the will of the father would be to say 'yes' and then go and do the job.
If I remember correctly (and I couldn't have been any more than 13 years old at the time) the minister's message was that works are sometimes more important than words. Just saying you'll do something, giving lip service, is not as important as actually doing it.
(It's not often a person remembers a particular sermon – especially over 50 years).

Now, looking at that same passage of Scripture, I agree with the minister – all we have sinned and come short of the glory of God, none of us are perfect. But what we do, how we respond to God's love, how we treat one another, matters. It matters more than just being agreeable and giving lip service.
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We are a cracked race ... couldn't cultivate much ...
 
The outcasts of Jewish society responded to John's admonition to repent. They were obedient to God's will. But the Pharisees and scribes, the chief priests and elders, acted on neither John's nor Christ's preaching. Their heart was far from real obedience to God's will.

A shameful person that repents is, I believe, acknowledged and treated by God as an obedient child, and their former shame is forgotten..
 
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