89 chapter project: Matthew

[GeoFee]

Hi,

Is there any cost to discipleship in our present world?

I have been arrested and tried by the State and I have been suspended from service by the Church. This basically standing freely and creatively in the way of faith. Where persons step forward in contradiction to prevailing political and religious structures they will without doubt experience the punitive displeasure of those prevailing powers. History makes this abundantly clear.

Do we follow Jesus today without fear?

Perfect love casts out all fear. The realization that nothing has power to diminish my standing in the sight of God goes a long way to removing the diverse realms of fear. I like the Psalmist on this - "Even when I walk through the valley of death's dark shadow, I will not be afraid of any threat."

George

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Thank you for getting that post.

The bible? It seems like a very obvious work of compiled fiction, with no compelling reason to think otherwise.

Wishful thinking.

I can still get shivers down my spine reading the Old Testament.

 

[paradox3]

Wishful thinking.

I can still get shivers down my spine reading the Old Testament.

Think you could provide us with a summary? The video looks to be 43 minutes long.

Are most of the fulfilled prophecies recorded in Matthew? This gospel writer, we are told, is writing for a Jewish audience and he focuses heavily on the fulfillment of prophecy from the Hebrew scriptures.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Biblical narratives are open to interpretation. What leads you to project arrogance and rudeness to the comments made by Jesus to his parents? Why does the text say that the parents did not understand what the boy was saying? Or, why did they not respond with feelings of offence and hurt? Which leads me to ask, is it possible your interpretation of the narrative is biased?[/QUOTE]No bias here. Just reading the bible as it is written.
I've been told off. People have been rude to me. But I didn't respond with offence or hurt. Because sometime people do that and you allow it without scolding them. Scolding takes you down to there level.
But clearly you seem to think jesus cared for his parents his mum in particular. however later in john 2:3 - 4 he is rude to his mother again. and she doesn't respond with offence or hurt. To him his mother is a lesser animal shown even more so in John 2. This is his response translated from a very old greek bible. Not your dodgy modern translations "John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come". it's even worse when translated from Aramaic "Jeasus said to her, “What do we have in common, woman? My hour has not quite yet come.” If you consider that not to be rude. then there is no helping you. Perhaps you should take the blinkers off, when next your read it.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Think you could provide us with a summary? The video looks to be 43 minutes long.

Are most of the fulfilled prophecies recorded in Matthew? It seems to be a big focus for this gospel writer.

Jesus fulfills over 300 prophesies of the Old Testament. Books written hundreds of years before his birth. No other person before or since fits the bill. The above video does not even touch the book of Daniel. It is no accidental compilation of fiction.

If you made a pot of alphabet soup and lifted the lid to serve it and the letters were all arranged to tell you the correct numbers to buy to win 60 million dollars on next Saturday night’s lottery, and you bought the ticket and won, you would know that a miracle had taken place.

The bible is equally that miraculous to anyone who takes the time to examine it.

 

[Pavlos Maros]

Thanks for your posts @chansen and @Pavlos Maros

How do you each view the bible? As a work of fiction? PM in particular seems quite familiar with it.
Curious minds want to know.

It is clearly a book of fiction, it asks it's readers too many times to suspend belief. It is no more a true tale than Aesops fables or A thousand and one nights. or even Winnie the Pooh. If those books were revered as the bible is today you would think them holy. And yes I am I have a library of old books and manscripts with an extensive collection of bibles going back centuries. I acquired most of W C Fields collection.

 

[chansen]

Wishful thinking.

I can still get shivers down my spine reading the Old Testament.

You mean in the book that was written decades after a man was supposedly crucified, the stories written about him kinda sorta fulfill the prophesies written hundreds of years earlier? And this impresses you?

How many timeshares do you own?

 

[Ritafee]

The same stuff that is always trotted out. We've been over all of it.

Dismissing 'what is trotted out' is not 'being over all of it'. This is the first time in my life that I have 'bothered' to look for historical evidence that the 'gospels' being discussed in this thread have 'historical' as well as theoretical/metaphorical merit. That 'we' have reviewed 'it all' but have not come to a consensus on who or what 'Jesus of Nazareth' represents seems to beg further 'seeking and finding'. It is that bothersome 'other' nature within me .... sensing at some level that dualism is just a lack of recognition of Jesus of Nazareth as a 'common denominator'.

To some here among us 'we' ... there is a refusal to allow or even consciously recognize these other 'bothersome' sensations, and that is a choice anyone can make in this 'playing field' through the mystery of free will ... regardless of how much it is being infringed upon through social as well as technological programming ... it makes no sense to me that it can ever be fully erased or overcome.

Separation, the idea that we or anything is literally separate from the ultimate energetic Source (God), is the 'fiction' that the character of Jesus of Nazareth negates.

Currently the human race is easily manipulated by anyone or anything seeking control. 'Christians' who capitalize on this division are of course just as capable of 'altering' the bible messages to suit their own ends of being 'historical winners'. Jesus ... in a word ... symbolizes everything we have to come to grips with in meeting our challenges here on earth. 'We' really don’t know the whole story because we’ve been cut off from our linear, historical past ... the 'stories' keep changing to suit the 'authorities in power'. Jesus ... in a word ... is liberation from that oppressive narrative ... it is a darn go-d story! Image'n that.

 

[Ritafee]

extensive collection of bibles going back centuries

How much dust do they have on them?

 

[Luce NDs]

How much dust do they have on them?

Layered grits ... as dirty opposition? Thus the dirt was conserved ...

Someone with a potters wheel and some rare water cranked out a soul ...

 

[Pavlos Maros]

How much dust do they have on them?

None. They are cherished and used in research. Why?

 

[Pavlos Maros]

(Reposted due to faulty posting previously)

Biblical narratives are open to interpretation. What leads you to project arrogance and rudeness to the comments made by Jesus to his parents? Why does the text say that the parents did not understand what the boy was saying? Or, why did they not respond with feelings of offence and hurt? Which leads me to ask, is it possible your interpretation of the narrative is biased?

No bias here. Just reading the bible as it is written.
I've been told off. People have been rude to me. But I didn't respond with offence or hurt. Because sometime people do that and you allow it without scolding them. Scolding takes you down to there level.

But clearly you seem to think jesus cared for his parents his mum in particular. however later in john 2:3 - 4 he is rude to his mother again. and she doesn't respond with offence or hurt. To him his mother is a lesser animal shown even more so in John 2. This is his response translated from a very old greek bible. Not your dodgy modern translations "John 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come". it's even worse when translated from Aramaic "Jesus said to her, “What do we have in common, woman? My hour has not quite yet come.” If you consider that not to be rude. then there is no helping you. Perhaps you should take the blinkers off, when next your read it.

 

[paradox3]

Interesting thread. We have two posters insisting the bible is a work of fiction.

We have two posters who seem to be saying it is an accurate, historical document (if I read them correctly).

If anyone else would like to check in with their approach to reading scripture, it might be helpful. I know I suggested earlier I wanted to avoid doing this. But it seems inescapable if we are to understand each other as the conversation unfolds.

I tried to outline my take on scripture in my opening post. It might be doing a little shifting around, which is often my experience when it comes to matters of faith.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

You mean in the book that was written decades after a man was supposedly crucified, the stories written about him kinda sorta fulfill the prophesies written hundreds of years earlier? And this impresses you?

How many timeshares do you own?

Some people will fall for anything.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Interesting thread. We have two posters insisting the bible is a work of fiction.

We have two posters who seem to be saying it is an accurate, historical document (if I read them correctly).

If anyone else would like to check in with their approach to reading scripture, it might be helpful. I know I suggested earlier I wanted to avoid doing this. But it seems inescapable if we are to understand each other as the conversation unfolds.

I tried to outline my take on scripture in my opening post. It might be doing a little shifting around, which is often my experience when it comes to matters of faith.

Why not watch The Case for Christ on Netflix and see if there may be any evidence that it is a historical document?

It is not a bad show and a good place to start.

 

[chansen]

If you're going to point to my acceptance of the engineer's report on the collapse of WTC 7, as an example of how gullible I am and link that supposed gullibility to my rejection of prophesies fulfilled, as written decades after the events they describe, then I'm fine with that.

If Christians want to hitch their messiah wagon to WTC 7 conspiracy theories, then be my guest.

 

[unsafe]

No one has any Proof the Bible is Fiction ------The Word says it is truth and that it contains no lies -------So there is Proof that the word is not fiction -----it say it itself ------

truth
/tro͞oTH/
noun

1. the quality or state of being true.
   
   synonyms: veracity, truthfulness, verity, sincerity, candor, honesty; More
   
   • that which is true or in accordance with fact or reality.
     
   • a fact or belief that is accepted as true.
     
     synonyms: fact, verity, certainty, certitude; More
     

Fiction ----

 

[chansen]

No one has any Proof the Bible is Fiction ------The Word says it is truth and that it contains no lies -------So there is Proof that the word is not fiction -----it say it itself ------

Unsafe's Law: When a book says it is true and contains no lies, that is proof it is not fiction

Blackbelt's Law: The very fact that fake X exists means that there is also the opposite, True X

Why does it take an atheist to point these things out? I'm simply laughing over here. If I was a Christian, I'd be livid. But most of the rest of you just let this stuff pass.

Is it that you understand that everyone sees unsafe and blackbelt as comedy and you don't feel it affects you? Do you understand how Christianity looks when beliefs like the above "laws" are common among vocal Christians?

Christianity has a massive stupidity problem. And no Christian wants to deal with it.

 

[BetteTheRed]

It is clearly a book of fiction, it asks it's readers too many times to suspend belief. It is no more a true tale than Aesops fables or A thousand and one nights. or even Winnie the Pooh. If those books were revered as the bible is today you would think them holy. And yes I am I have a library of old books and manscripts with an extensive collection of bibles going back centuries. I acquired most of W C Fields collection.

Do you distinguish at all between "sacred" texts, like Torah, Talmud, Christian Scripture, The Upanishads, etc., and "fiction" written for purely entertainment value, like Winnie the Pooh, Lord of the Rings, etc?

 

[Jaebius]

Interesting thread. We have two posters insisting the bible is a work of fiction.

We have two posters who seem to be saying it is an accurate, historical document (if I read them correctly).

If anyone else would like to check in with their approach to reading scripture, it might be helpful. I know I suggested earlier I wanted to avoid doing this. But it seems inescapable if we are to understand each other as the conversation unfolds.

I tried to outline my take on scripture in my opening post. It might be doing a little shifting around, which is often my experience when it comes to matters of faith.

I believe that Scripture is best read, as suggested by Christopher Wright in his book The Mission of God, with a missional hermeneutic of its whole canon. Such a hermeneutic, as Wright explains, means seeing Scripture as the deposit of and witness to God's mission in all creation and history.