Do Americans and Canadians Have Different Ideas on Racism?

Welcome to Wondercafe2!

A community where we discuss, share, and have some fun together. Join today and become a part of it!

Register Log in
I also think the radical feminists helped oppressed women aknowledge their oppression, it brought it to light, and although the average woman didn't take a radical stance it pushed them to do something too, to support change over time.
 
Sometimes its hard to contain anger or share it appropriately. I can sometimes have an angry edge to my feminism, and I'm finding in recent years that language bothers me more than it used to. If I have to sit through a church service, for instance, with exclusively male references to Divinity, I will leave feeling almost physically ill, as if my spirit has been assaulted and suppressed.

But we're a long way from racism. That grand jury verdict down in the states was interesting; I wonder if it will unleash a groundswell of violence?
 
In her book "With or Without God", Gretta Vosper described herself and her mother as "wounded females," wounded by their own religion. I wonder how much this had to do with her anti-religious stance?
 
Lots, I'll bet. If the church was honest with itself, it would recognize the problem of wounded females. Part of the problem, as I see it, is that many women have repressed their woundedness. I can't tell you how many women, when I ask them if the repeated "He, Him, Lord" doesn't grind on their souls, tell me that "they don't notice it, dearie!".
 
I certainly noticed the male based language and attitudes at church when I was young. Eventually it convinced to stop attending - and no one seemed to notice. Weird really weird. I was the ONLY teen in the congregation and was apparently about as important to the 'body' as that wee bit of smoke wafting around when the candles were extinguished.

I was hurt by the church. I was disgusted by the church. The sexism, the racism, the rigid interpretations of 'suitable behaviour', and the belittling of females were a total turn off..
 
Hey Kay! (and everyone else enjoying the sexism drift of this thread), started another thread in Religion and Faith on "church woundedness in women". Thought we could return this thread to racism.

Could what happened in Ferguson happen in Canada? Is that the difference between overt and covert racism - it's hard to protest the covert kind?
 
It seems that about a month ago I was a victim of reverse sexism. I was told that there wasn't enough money to keep me working at the place I had been at for five years - and shortly after I was transferred a woman was hired to take my place.
 
KayTheCurler said:
I certainly noticed the male based language and attitudes at church when I was young. Eventually it convinced to stop attending - and no one seemed to notice. Weird really weird. I was the ONLY teen in the congregation and was apparently about as important to the 'body' as that wee bit of smoke wafting around when the candles were extinguished.

I was hurt by the church. I was disgusted by the church. The sexism, the racism, the rigid interpretations of 'suitable behaviour', and the belittling of females were a total turn off..
Click to expand...

I hope you realize not all churches are like that.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Could what happened in Ferguson happen in Canada? Is that the difference between overt and covert racism - it's hard to protest the covert kind?
Click to expand...


What exactly in Ferguson are we looking at? The initial shooting or the escalation in its wake?

Police shootings happen here in Canada though not at the same rate of prevalence as in the United States. Wikipedia lists 9 fatal shootings by police in Canada to date (3 in Quebec, 3 in Ontario, 2 in Alberta and 1 in British Columbia). Two of the victims are unidentified (one was 17).

Material released by the Prosecutor that was considered by the Grand Jury include the testimony of the Officer who pulled the trigger, 3 forensic reports and roughly 64 witnesses. Muddies the waters somewhat. While race was a factor it does not appear from the testimony given that the shooting is racially motivated nor does the attempt to question the victim appear racially motivated.

As far as the escalation/reaction goes it seems like that is not a Canadian response to such instances. Of course none of the 9 Canadian shootings seems to have been embroiled in similar circumstances.
 
Pr. Jae said:
It seems that about a month ago I was a victim of reverse sexism. I was told that there wasn't enough money to keep me working at the place I had been at for five years - and shortly after I was transferred a woman was hired to take my place.
Click to expand...

sombunall companies, to stay competitive (ie 'in business'), would shoot themselves in the foot if they didn't hire women, seeing as women are cheaper?

(tho the 'don't come in to work anymore' can be quite brutal...)

and so it goes
 
Inannawhimsey said:
sombunall companies, to stay competitive (ie 'in business'), would shoot themselves in the foot if they didn't hire women, seeing as women are cheaper?

(tho the 'don't come in to work anymore' can be quite brutal...)

and so it goes
Click to expand...

That might be true in some (most?) companies - but we all make around the same wage.
 
I'm with RevJohn -- could which part happen in Canada

Concern about an inappropriate police killing -- sure look at the shootings in Toronto -- though most have been about medically unstable folks (and continue to be based on initial reviews of the handling of the BC shooting)

Concern about racially motivated shootings: well, the one difference, I think, is that there has been more focus on police forces representing the community here....in Ferguson it was said there were only 3 (?) black officers in a force of 50+, but the community was closer to 90%(?) black. (excuse my approx's on the numbers...done from memory)
 
I think Ferguson is a beta test perpetrated by the state with the help of social engineers and federal provocateurs ... globalist controlled media feeding the flames by playing the racial card to the limit in order to convince peaceful protesting citizens and 'good' cops to get behind militarization of civil servants.

Who are the out of control people violently storming the streets setting fires and shooting wildly into the air? This should not have turned into a race war .... It is supposed to be about rules of police engagement ... now this ... it is too crazy. Why are the police standing down ... to show what happens when they do? The criminals that are running around looting and shooting are not the representation of the Ferguson citizens in general ... they are thugs from out of the area taking advantage of the fact that they are being given free reign to wreak havoc and burn Ferguson down ... while the media fans the flames ... this is a bread and circus event ... the promotion of "racial" riot scenarios ... burning buildings ... reckless gunfire ... firefighters being ordered to flee for their lives ?

The Grand Jury Decision ... built up for days that it was going to be announced any minute ... then finally announcing after dark ... turning it into a Prime Time Media Event ... nothing really blocked off ... no real law 'Enforcement' ... open access to the streets for the 'black terrorists' ... no holds barred ... it doesn't even make sense ...
 
On Ferguson:

"...despite several decades of research into crowd psychology, the answers to most questions concerning crowds can still be traced back to a book printed in 1895.

Gustave’s Le Bon’s book, “The Crowd: A Study of the Popular Mind,” explains that humans in large groups are dangerous, that people spontaneously de-evolve into subhuman beasts who are easily swayed and prone to violence. That viewpoint has informed the policies and tactics of governments and police forces for more than a century, and like many prescientific musings, much of it is wrong.

Listen in this episode as Bond explains that the more research the social sciences conduct, the less the idea of a mindless, animalistic mob seems to be true. He also explains what police forces and governments should be doing instead of launching tear gas canisters from behind riot shields which actually creates the situation they are trying to prevent. Also, we touch on the psychology of suicide bombers, which is just as surprising as what he learned researching crowds.

After the interview, I discuss new research into how hiring quotas work and don’t work in loose societies vs. tight societies."

--from You Are Not So Smart podcast 28: The Sanity of Crowds http://youarenotsosmart.com/2014/07/21/3093/
 
@ pinga ... you asked if I was serious ... could you be more specific?

NY Times Articles Quotes ... seem to ask some of the same questions I did ...
  • In Washington, St. Louis and Ferguson itself, an array of public officials, community leaders and clergy were deeply critical of one another as they sought to explain how protests over the grand jury's decision not to indict the white police officer in the shooting had spun further out of control than the unrest that followed the death in August of Mr. Brown, who was black.
  • Residents and business owners along the streets in Ferguson expressed frustration and fear at what occurred on Monday night. For weeks, the authorities here had worked to assure them that the region would be ready for whatever was ahead.
  • “They abandoned us completely,” said Rob Chabot, the owner of Mobile Eye Care Solutions, along South Florissant Road, where episodes of violence flared on Monday. “They sacrificed Ferguson. For what cause? I don’t know.”
  • In a news conference here, James Knowles III, the mayor of Ferguson, was also critical of the state’s response. “Unfortunately, as the unrest grew and further assistance was needed, the National Guard was not deployed in enough time to save all of our businesses,” he said.
  • By Tuesday afternoon, the police reported that there had been 21 fires in and around Ferguson, at least 150 gunshots and damage to 10 police cruisers. At times, officials said, firefighters had to retreat from battling fires because of gunfire and objects being thrown all around.
  • Just as law enforcement officials were criticized for being too aggressive in August, they were facing questions on Tuesday over whether their approach this time was too tame. Chief Jon Belmar of the St. Louis County Police and other officials defended their response, saying that they took steps to de-escalate the situation but that the magnitude of the violence was beyond their control.
  • Chief Belmar said the initial, hands-off tactics by the police were intended to allow protesters to demonstrate peacefully, but he said that the situation ultimately grew so unstable that it required a more forceful approach.
  • “I don’t think we were under prepared, but I’ll be honest with you, unless we bring 10,000 policemen in here, I don’t think we can prevent folks that really are intent on destroying a community,” he said. But he admitted that despite months of preparation and training, and a buildup of manpower, equipment and technology, he had not foreseen the chaos that ultimately unfolded.
  • Many, too, blamed protest groups for failing to restrain people whose plans went far beyond the peaceful protests promised in weeks past. In the days leading up to grand jury’s announcement, the police and some protest leaders had agreed to numerous “rules of engagement” to allow demonstrators to peacefully assemble and have their say. But those rules seemed to vanish on Monday night.
Officials had been unwilling to provide details about the number of troops when Mr. Nixon first called up the Missouri National Guard last week in advance of the grand jury announcement, but it was clear that he wished to send a precise and powerful message on Tuesday ... More than 2,200 members of the Guard, he said, could be expected in and around this city on Tuesday evening, protecting homes and businesses.

But on Monday Night ...
  • the Guard’s role had been largely limited to protecting government buildings, including a police command post.
 
I see, so you see that their inability to handle the situation was not their analysis failure or reaction, but had to be a planned strategic to make blacks look bad.

My god, you have some crazy understanding of humans.

There were plans made and directions made.
The crowd split --choices were made.
There was a desire to le peaceful protests continue --
There were choices made in regards to how to react and when to react, given there is a massive built up anger at the police.

seriously, i'm surprised it went as well as it did.

Consider the riots in Vancouver after a hockey game and how they got out of control. Police didn't have all the extra concern of a group of people who were waiting to attack them in the media for every step they took. They didn't have folks like you looking for conspiracy theories --- "they waned Vancouver to burn".

Your presumption is that the out of control folks robbing stores and setting fires are agent provocateurs of the government to make blacks look bad?
There are enough people who resort to violence in that situation to do the damage. (again, witness Vancouver post-hockey mob).

It would be nice to blame the big bad government with some massive plot.
Reality is usually much simpler. One person doing something. Another person building on that action. Then another.

Just as it is much easier to listen to social media and the voice of one person to fan he flames of hate, then it is to look at the mass of testimonies and say "we were wrong".
 
An article pointing out that a Ferguson-type case here would be different simply by virtue of different processes, esp. here in Ontario where we have a commission (the SIU) specifically for investigating cases involving police incidents that result in death or injury to civilians and suspects.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/if-michael-brown-was-shot-in-canada/ar-BBfWPVf

I think the key thing is that the grand jury process used in this case is flawed by lack of transparency. There is no such process in Canada. If a prosecutor lays charges, it goes to open court for a preliminary hearing and the defence is present (which they are not for a grand jury stateside).

The combination of an independent police review process and an open court process for any charges strikes me as being much better than the process used in Ferguson for answering concerns about how and why a case is handled a certain way.

Would Wilson have been charged here? Hard to say, though I will say that whatever happened, we would at least have more information on why (vs. the secrecy of the US grand jury which means we only know that they decided not to proceed, but not what evidence was presented, how it was presented, etc.). My gut feeling is that in Ontario, he would at least have faced Police Act charges even if not criminal charges.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top