Resolution - to read the Bible

[Seeler]

We now turn to Matthew 27 and Mark 15 for their accounts of Jesus' trial and crucifixion. I read this last evening one after the other and noticed how similar they are, as well as their differences. Again because of their familiarity I am not going to dwell on them but just highlight those things that jumped up to me.
Only Matthew reports of Pilate's wife's dream. or Pilate washing his hands of the whole of the whole affair.
Matthew also is the only gospel that has the crowds cry out for his blood on their shoulders and those of their children.
During the trial and crucifixion of Jesus according to Matthew and Mark, Jesus was almost silent. When questioned by Pilate he only spoke a few words. When asked directly 'are you the King of the Jews?' He responded with a few words that could be translated as 'so you say' or 'you said it, not I'. On the cross, he was silent until near the end when he cried out the words of a psalm 'my God, my God, why have you abandoned (forsaken) me?' Then he breathed his last.
Both Gospels report when Jesus died the curtain in the temple was torn in two, a Roman centurion declared that 'surely this man was the son of God', and Jesus' death was witnessed by women of Galilee, including his mother and Mary Magdaline
Matthew alone reports that at the time the temple curtain was torn, the earth quaked and rocks split apart, Graves opened. Strangely then, Matthew tells us that the dead saints came alive, walked out of the tombs, and walked about Jerusalem where they were seen by many.
This raises a lot of questions for me. It seems that such an unusual event would have been reported by more than one Gospel. Were they really alive or more like zombies? Did they speak? And what happened to them? Did they rejoin their families, or after a few hours to return to their graves? Matthew gives no explanation.
Both Gospels report that Joseph of Armathea requested Jesus body and laid it in his own tomb. A stone was placed over the entrance, and a guard was set. This ends both Matthew and Mark's chapter on the trial and crucifixion.
Feel free to read it for yourselves.

 

[Seeler]

Chapter 23 of the Gospel of Luke gives Luke's version of Jesus's trial and death. After his arrest Jesus first taken before Pilate who, finding no fault in him, sends him to Herod where he is questioned; but Jesus remains silent. He is mocked and abused before being sent back to Pillate. Pilate, finding no fault in Jesus, reluctantly gives in to the crowds and sentences Jesus to be crucified.
The way to the hill where the crucifixion takes place Jesus speaks to the women following him.
As the soldiers carry out the crucifiction Jesus speaks again when he asks 'father forgive them, for they know not what they are doing.'
He is crucified between two thieves. When one of the thieves asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus comes into his glory, Jesus again speaks 'truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise'.
According to this gospel Jesus last words were 'father, into your hands I commit my spirit.'
Luke also tells of the Roman soldier recognizing Jesus as a righteous man' as Jesus died and the whole land became dark.
The women watch from the distance as Joseph of Armathea takes Jesus body down from the cross and places it in his own tomb.
This chapter ends with the notation of the Sabbath was about to begin.

 

[BetteTheRed]

when Jesus died the curtain in the temple was torn in two,

I have always wondered why there were no Jewish record of this?

 

[Mendalla]

I have always wondered why there were no Jewish record of this?

Given that there is also no historic record of this:

Strangely then, Matthew tells us that the dead saints came alive, walked out of the tombs, and walked about Jerusalem where they were seen by many.

It doesn't really surprise me. Today, we'd probably assume a zombie apocalypse and start beheading the poor saints.

Let's face it, a lot of these "signs" are just that: The writer trying to portray the signficance of the event through literary and storytelling devices. I doubt anyone really saw dead saints wandering around Jerusalem. Ditto the curtain. Maybe it was torn but only the Gospel writer(s) actually saw it as related to Jesus or maybe they just created it as an image to help illustrate the import of the story.

 

[Waterfall]

It does seem to work better symbolically.

 

[Luce NDs]

Symbolism can rule the imagination with absolute rules about use of the psyche ... an imagined organ said to be abstract by crazy psychologists ...

Thus Roshorch testing ... occult icons that are black generally ... like the one that B' atman's uses ...

The adman or atmaan in some cultures is the shadow representation of sou' ... a small thing ... a mite thing to look for in the flip ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

So, I can get the symbolic inference of the ripping in half of the curtain - god breaking into the world, perhaps.

But the zombies? There's a lot of Eastern Orthodox reference to the "first fruits of the resurrection" and tons on icons depicting Jesus leading all of the people, starting with Adam and Eve, out of hell, following his three days there.

 

[Mendalla]

But the zombies? There's a lot of Eastern Orthodox reference to the "first fruits of the resurrection" and tons on icons depicting Jesus leading all of the people, starting with Adam and Eve, out of hell, following his three days there.

The "Harrowing of Hell" (Christ descending into Hell and freeing those within) is a major motif in Christian thought, appearing in both Roman and Eastern traditions though not all Protestants believe in it (e.g.. Calvin).

Wiki article on the subject:

Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia

 

[unsafe]

The Veil in the temple separated the unholy from the holy -------only the high priest was allow to enter where the veil was ----The Law was still in place and only the Jews were God's chosen ----Jesus died and broke the barrier to bring in the New Covenant to include all people -----the veil was split -----there was a New way to be the chosen and it was for all people not just the Jews

 

[Luce NDs]

The veil of psyche is that dividing absolute from abstract ... a dark wall ... it can be plowed out ... bull dozing metaphor if the malevolent one is a strong bore ... a kind of rooting animal ...

Ever see what an oak can do to a rock wall? Thus brutes don't like tree'd houses ...

The tree of logic in concern ... LOGOδ? A subtle ideal to those on a high ...

 

[Seeler]

The Gospel of John 18 and 19 – Jesus arrest and trial.
Almost immediately we can see the difference between this gospel and those three proceeding it. In them when Jesus was arrested and tried, the authorities were in control. A very human Jesus was caught up in the political situation of the time, arrested, tortured and crucified by the Roman soldiers according to the wishes of the religious leaders. In John, Jesus appears to be the one in charge of that the time of his arrest and his trial.
He has foreknowledge of what is about to happen; he approaches the soldiers and they fall back; he rebukes Peter for trying to defend him, and tells the soldiers to let his followers go.
Then Jesus allows himself to be arrested. He is the Christ, the annointed one of God.
He is taken before Annas, father-in-law of the high priest Caliapas, where he is questioned and engages in dialogue.
He is then taken before the Roman, Pilate, who also engages with him in a long dialogue.
This chapter ends with Pilate asking the question 'what is truth?' And walking away.
Finding no fault of Jesus Pilate had him flogged, and turned over to the soldiers who put a crown of thorns on his head and mocked him.
Pilate wanted to release Jesus but the Jewish crowd demanded that he be crucified. Pilate gave in to the crowds.
Jesus was crucified, his clothing divided among the soldiers.
Jesus noticed his mother standing near the cross with a group of women, and spoke to her and to one of the disciples thus providing for her care.
The next reported words of Jesus are "I am thirsty".
Short time later Jesus said "it is finished!" And bowed his head and died.
I note three of the four Gospels report different statements as Jesus' last words.
Like the other Gospels, John reports that it was Joseph of Armithea who took Jesus body and placed it in a new tomb. Only John has Joseph accompanied by Nicodemus.

 

[unsafe]

unsafe says --------So here in Seelers post she say this -----and turned over to the soldiers who put a crown of thorns on his head and mocked him. and He was Flogged

Here we have Jesus shedding blood from the crown of thorns and the flogging on his back -----this is significant cause this means He won something back for us that Satan had taken away ------

unsafe posted ----read all

7 Places Jesus Shed His BLOOD

Thoughts to Ponder: 7 Places Jesus Shed His BLOOD

The blood of Jesus is the most powerful force in the whole universe. "Without the shedding of blood there is NO remission of sin".

No other religion in the world except Christianity can take away the Sin of Adam and give mankind FORGIVENESS and a NEW LIFE. It is the only religion where God comes to man and gives Himself sacrificially. All other religions instruct men to try to reach God by their own merit. There is power in the blood of the lamb and it is available for you and for me. You can be free in every part of your life and in everything that concerns you because of the blood of Jesus.


.2 Jesus was whipped to break the curse of sickness and disease
Isaiah 53:5 I Peter 2:24

3. Jesus' crown of thorns was placed on Jesus' brow, to break the curse of poverty and release me into God's abundance.
Genesis 3:17, 18 2 Corinthians 8,9

 

[crazyheart]

good work,seeler

 

[Luce NDs]

good work,seeler

And the corona caused flaring of the mystery ... and after that it was out there as myth ... and you know how myth affects absolute dog maas ...

Some would sooner lime in their Byre ... sourdoughs ... poorly bread ... improper etiquette?

 

[Seeler]

All four Gospels tell of Jesus arrest, trial, and crucifixion. their reports are all somewhat different. Mark gives a bare-bones account of the very human Jesus, who was silent during this trial and during the time on the cross until he cries out at the end, I feel his agony as he quotes a Psalm of abandonment even by God.
By the time we reach the gospel of John and John's account we find Jesus completely in control of very spiritual being who for knows everything that is about to happen and who could change the outcome at any time but who willingly submits. This Jesus gives orders to the soldiers who come to arrest him, engages in theological discussions with his judges during his trials, and who would have the power to come down from the cross if you choose to.
We move on now to the stories of the resurrection which are also quite different in the four Gospels.

 

[Luce NDs]

If we witnessed a trial and exclusion to suit corporate interest and not the common folk ... would one be stunned and ready for rest? Thus the expression for unconscious powers to take control ... trance and trauma are thus connected ... just for escapism!

Some times the blind are just stunned ... love can do that in crisis and peak incidents ... but improper to speak about ... as some intelligence is excluded by emotional powers ... just to complex to deal with without chaos imposing! So it goes ... dynamics! Moving nodes ... b' Ozunes ...

Relax ... it is just another word as God expands ... that the word on literary device ... opening ...

 

[Seeler]

Chapter 16 is the last chapter of Mark's gospel.
The tells of three women visiting the tomb in the early morning. They find the stone rolled away, the empty tomb, and a young man (an angel?) sitting there. He tells them that Jesus is risen and for them to go to the disciples. Instead they run away frightened, and tell no one. The earliest copies of Mark end here.
Two more endings appear to have been written some time later.
One ending has has the women tell Peter and the other disciples. Jesus later appears to the disciples and they spread the message of salvation.
The third ending seems to me to have been written sometime later than the first or the second. It may have been added to include some of the other resurrection stories that were circulating but the writer of Mark had not heard until after he finished his first report. He tells of Jesus appearing to two people as they walked along the road, of appearing to the disciples sharing a meal in a closed room, and several other appearances. Jesus commissioned the disciples to spread the good news. He was taken up into heaven to the right hand of God.

 

[Luce NDs]

That portal divides women from the 3 men in the tub theme ... a Tun for fermentation? Light whines ...

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Chapter 16 is the last chapter of Mark's gospel.
The tells of three women visiting the tomb in the early morning. They find the stone rolled away, the empty tomb, and a young man (an angel?) sitting there. He tells them that Jesus is risen and for them to go to the disciples. Instead they run away frightened, and tell no one. The earliest copies of Mark end here.
Two more endings appear to have been written some time later.
One ending has has the women tell Peter and the other disciples. Jesus later appears to the disciples and they spread the message of salvation.
The third ending seems to me to have been written sometime later than the first or the second. It may have been added to include some of the other resurrection stories that were circulating but the writer of Mark had not heard until after he finished his first report. He tells of Jesus appearing to two people as they walked along the road, of appearing to the disciples sharing a meal in a closed room, and several other appearances. Jesus commissioned the disciples to spread the good news. He was taken up into heaven to the right hand of God.

From The Word of Promise study bible:

The authenticity of these last 12 verses has been disputed. Those who doubt Mark’s authorship of this passage point to two fourth-century manuscripts that omit these verses. Others believe that they should be included because even these two manuscripts leave space for all or some of these verses, indicating that their copyists knew of their existence. The difficulty is in knowing whether the space is for this longer version of Mark’s ending or for one of the alternate endings found in the manuscripts. Practically all other manuscripts contain vv. 9–20, and this passage is endorsed by such early church fathers as Justin Martyr (A.D. 155), Tatian (A.D. 170), and Irenaeus (A.D. 180). It does not seem likely that Mark would end his story on a note of fear (v. 8).

 

[Waterfall]

From The Word of Promise study bible:

The authenticity of these last 12 verses has been disputed. Those who doubt Mark’s authorship of this passage point to two fourth-century manuscripts that omit these verses. Others believe that they should be included because even these two manuscripts leave space for all or some of these verses, indicating that their copyists knew of their existence. The difficulty is in knowing whether the space is for this longer version of Mark’s ending or for one of the alternate endings found in the manuscripts. Practically all other manuscripts contain vv. 9–20, and this passage is endorsed by such early church fathers as Justin Martyr (A.D. 155), Tatian (A.D. 170), and Irenaeus (A.D. 180). It does not seem likely that Mark would end his story on a note of fear (v. 8).

Will unsafe be upset with you because you quoted learned men who are not mentioned in the Bible? Or is it okay as long as they agree with you?