The Consequences of No Religion

[chansen]

True.

Imagine how that would have improved if one of God's "Commandments" was to "boil your drinking water."

All it would have taken is one sentence in a holy book, inspired, supposedly, by an all-knowing God. Imagine how many millions of lives would have been saved with a simple advisory to boil water.

 

[airclean33]

Hi Chansen --How do you think the water became Polluted ?Man knows today about boiling water. Do people still die because they don't boil water?You don't believe in GOD would you have believed Him?By the way do you know were mankind learned to boil water?

 

[Waterfall]

True.

Imagine how that would have improved if one of God's "Commandments" was to "boil your drinking water."

All it would have taken is one sentence in a holy book, inspired, supposedly, by an all-knowing God. Imagine how many millions of lives would have been saved with a simple advisory to boil water.

Which begs the question, what happens when you boil filthy water? Does the dirt disappear? The Romans had the aquaducts and other civilizations did come up with other methods. Also I suppose back then there was a possibility of finding some source of water that hadn't been contaminated? We were given brains and told to use them.

 

[Waterfall]

Waterfall - I was surprised to hear you question whether Jesus was a carpenter. I checked your resource. I am not familiar with the author or the publication, but I disagree with his conclusions.
He would also have learned the culture and religion of his people - first by the observances in the home, and later in the synagogue where he would have been taught, mainly by rote learning and memorizing, by the local rabbi. To be a rabbi at that time meant an individual respected for his wisdom and understanding and ability to pass on his knowledge - in other words, a teacher. One did not become a rabbi by formal training, but by the respect in which he was held. (I compare this to the many school teachers I knew just a couple of generations ago who taught in rural schools on a "local" or "second class" license - with little or no formal training.)
I believe that Jesus started his life as a carpenter and probably worked at it until he was about 30 -- while meeting with the village rabbi and any other visiting leaders, and making periodic visits to the temple in Jerusalem, discussing the law and the writings and the religious beliefs and practices of the time.
At about 30 he met John the Baptist, and possibly spent some time with him. Then, after a period of discernment in the desert he began what might be referred to as his 'second career' --

That is what I learned in Sunday School, and in reading and studying since then. I'm no authority. But I have no trouble believing the references the scriptures have of Jesus being referred to a carpenter, carpenter's son, workman, or rabbi.

Mathew 13:55 asks is this not the carpenters son, (also translated as stone mason, which would have required a higher education), so here, Joseph is the carpenter/stone mason. I think Mark 6:3 is the only scripture in the Bible that refers to Him as a carpenter/stone mason?

I have been reading many sites that are saying that because Jesus spoke in the Temple with authority he was a formally trained Rabbi. Then I read the link below, to explain why Jesus knew what He did and the education of the day. Of course one never knows how accurate these "google" sites are.

http://followtherabbi.com/guide/detail/rabbi-and-talmidim

So what exactly gave Jesus the authority to preach in the Synogues? Or overturn tables without being arrested? (similar to Nehemiah overturning the furniture in the OT)

Could any student that grew up with religious education in school, speak to the people within the Temple or was there a certain criteria and a more dedicated instruction that was followed?

I am trying to understand, because there is conflicting information out there. Would love to hear the revs opinion as well as seelers. Seeler thank you for your insights.

 

[chansen]

Which begs the question, what happens when you boil filthy water? Does the dirt disappear? The Romans had the aquaducts and other civilizations did come up with other methods. Also I suppose back then there was a possibility of finding some source of water that hadn't been contaminated? We were given brains and told to use them.

You can drink water that is contaminated by present standards and not get sick. You're just more likely to get sick. Sediment is one thing, but bacteria are completely invisible. People were boiling water before the bible was written, but it never got mentioned. In a book supposedly at least "inspired" by God. One little tidbit that wasn't even a new invention, that, if followed "religiously", would have saved countless lives. Instead, we're warned about mixing fibres.

 

[Waterfall]

I think I read somewhere that wine can purify low quality water....and I think clay, as in clay jars is a purifier also.

 

[chansen]

I think I read somewhere that wine can purify low quality water....and I think clay, as in clay jars is a purifier also.

The wine idea sounds like a fun afternoon.

"Ahm NOT drunk! Ahm just drinking decon....decon...Ahm just drinking funny water!"

Ceramics can filter water, and the ceramic filter was invented in 1827, according to Wikipedia. But you have to pass water through ceramic, not just pour it in a ceramic jug and hope for the best.

 

[Hermann]

People found out in ancient times that fermentation, even a low level of fermentation, purifies water. Turning water into wine was a miracle that purified water, not to speak of the pleasant side effects of "spiritual" intoxication.

 

[airclean33]

Mathew 13:55 asks is this not the carpenters son, (also translated as stone mason, which would have required a higher education), so here, Joseph is the carpenter/stone mason. I think Mark 6:3 is the only scripture in the Bible that refers to Him as a carpenter/stone mason?

I have been reading many sites that are saying that because Jesus spoke in the Temple with authority he was a formally trained Rabbi. Then I read the link below, to explain why Jesus knew what He did and the education of the day. Of course one never knows how accurate these "google" sites are.

http://followtherabbi.com/guide/detail/rabbi-and-talmidim

So what exactly gave Jesus the authority to preach in the Synogues? Or overturn tables without being arrested? (similar to Nehemiah overturning the furniture in the OT)

Could any student that grew up with religious education in school, speak to the people within the Temple or was there a certain criteria and a more dedicated instruction that was followed?

I am trying to understand, because there is conflicting information out there. Would love to hear the revs opinion as well as seelers. Seeler thank you for your insights.

Hi Waterfall-- I believe our Lord had teaching , long before he would receive training from His earthly dad to become a carpenter, although He would have probably had some idea , on what is was to be a carpenter. But this is not what He was called to do.This happened when He was but 12.

k 2:46 After three days they found him in the temple, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions;

Luk 2:47 and all who heard him were amazed at his understanding and his answers.

Luk 2:48 And when they saw him they were astonished; and his mother said to him, "Son, why have you treated us so? Behold, your father and I have been looking for you anxiously."

Luk 2:49 And he said to them, "How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be in my Father's house?"

 

[Waterfall]

The wine idea sounds like a fun afternoon.

"Ahm NOT drunk! Ahm just drinking decon....decon...Ahm just drinking funny water!"

Ceramics can filter water, and the ceramic filter was invented in 1827, according to Wikipedia. But you have to pass water through ceramic, not just pour it in a ceramic jug and hope for the best.

Here's how to do it and various other methods: http://36readyblog.com/2013/01/12/water-purification-simple-and-inexpensive-methods/



Wine isn't the best way, but hey, when you're in the desert in ancient times, it's one way.

And this:http://innovatedevelopment.org/2014/01/30/clay-pots-water-filters-easy-to-use-and-cheap-to-produce/

 

[Waterfall]

From the Biblical record - which Hermann points out is not a historical document - we learn that Peter had a mother-in-law. That would indicate that at least one of the disciples (Peter) was old enough to be married.
I have always had the impression that Bartholomew/Nathanial (if they are the same person) was an older man (which may have been about 40 in first century Galilee).
There is very little to go by for the other disciples. John is usually portrayed as being younger than the others, and the last survivor. James and John's father was still living at the time they were called which might indicate that they were in their teens or early 20s.

It appears teenagers were smarter in those days (no stupid gene),. Seriously though, they must have had to get serious about life pretty fast with a lower life expectancy. Can you imagine if they had twitter, FB, TV....would they have used it for evangelizing or just killed time like a lot of us today with our increased life expectancy?

 

[airclean33]

People found out in ancient times that fermentation, even a low level of fermentation, purifies water. Turning water into wine was a miracle that purified water, not to speak of the pleasant side effects of "spiritual" intoxication.

Hi Hermann -- Do you realize Hermann. How deep your explain of Jesus an His movements here on earth work.Have you ever thought of how we who come into this world , living in a bobble of water?That we our self"s are made from a great amount of water.The last supper.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Maybe it's because the world was understood and interpreted by people who were young. They had a deep understanding that humanity was not the creator of it's own existance but had not discovered good skills and practical knowledge needed to prolong that existance.

Mathew 13:55 asks is this not the carpenters son, (also translated as stone mason, which would have required a higher education), so here, Joseph is the carpenter/stone mason. I think Mark 6:3 is the only scripture in the Bible that refers to Him as a carpenter/stone mason?

I have been reading many sites that are saying that because Jesus spoke in the Temple with authority he was a formally trained Rabbi. Then I read the link below, to explain why Jesus knew what He did and the education of the day. Of course one never knows how accurate these "google" sites are.

http://followtherabbi.com/guide/detail/rabbi-and-talmidim

So what exactly gave Jesus the authority to preach in the Synogues? Or overturn tables without being arrested? (similar to Nehemiah overturning the furniture in the OT)

Could any student that grew up with religious education in school, speak to the people within the Temple or was there a certain criteria and a more dedicated instruction that was followed?

I am trying to understand, because there is conflicting information out there. Would love to hear the revs opinion as well as seelers. Seeler thank you for your insights.

This wasn't to me...but wasn't overturning the tables one of the main reasons he was arrested? He got away that day. They didn't have cell phones to call the cops. Lol. So...he went into hiding, right? He was a fugitive.

All Jewish boys studied the Torah and even street preachers could be called 'Rabbi' . He wasn't too welcome by the temple priests.

 

[Seeler]

Wisdom is not synonymous with formal education.
My grandson showed more wisdom most adults present when he whispered to me that he saw Jesus in a baby being baptised; and he was a pre-schooler at the time.
I do imagine that Jesus was an intelligent and eager student, soaking up knowledge both at home and in the synagogue. I doubt very much if he had much formal education. At twelve, when he talked with the leaders in the temple, his formal education was probably just about over. He would be considered a man in the Jewish faith. He would also probably be working full time beside his father by then.
Child labour was the norm (but within the setting of the home and village - not the factories and mines). 'Teenager' is a recent invention.

 

[Waterfall]

Seeler I realize wisdom doesnt necessarily mean having an education but I am wondering what it is that some people recognize as authority, because not everyone with or without an education exhibits this or delivers this.

 

[chansen]

Wisdom is not synonymous with formal education.
My grandson showed more wisdom most adults present when he whispered to me that he saw Jesus in a baby being baptised; and he was a pre-schooler at the time.

That's not "wisdom" - that's repeating the language he's heard you use.

 

[Seeler]

Sorry, Chansen, but I am quite sure that Grandson never heard me express that sentiment. If he had about three years old was able to ascertain from my theology that I would be open to seeing the face of Jesus in every baby even though I had never thought thought it through or spoken the words, I am more impressed than I was with him forming the idea himself. What's more, I feel certain that at least some of the people in the church would have 'corrected' him.

 

[Hermann]

If little children experience pure reality -- reality as it really is, not as we think it is -- and this reality is the ultimate reality and truth, then the outward expression of this reality would, perhaps, be close to wisdom. Then little children would be wise because their expressions are as yet "unadulterated" by the conceptual world view of their socializers.

 

[chansen]

Sorry, Chansen, but I am quite sure that Grandson never heard me express that sentiment.

Well he heard someone express it. That's what 3-year-olds do - they repeat things. What they don't do, is have a sufficiently deep understanding of a religion and its symbolism to relate that to a ceremonial miniature dunk tank invitee.

 

[airclean33]

They shell be led by a child..