God's Sovereignty And Our Freedom To Choose

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Waterfall said:
What was the serpent doing tempting others....isn't that odd for such activity before "the fall"?
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The Fall is the fall of humanity. It is not the first of all falls. Apparently, Lucifer fell from the heavens before that. Is the serpent Lucifer? Some would argue yes others no. Not that it really matters who the serpent really is or when that particular individual fell.

Waterfall said:
It sounds like the garden was perfect with the serpent or else it was imperfect with the serpent in it. How could the garden of eden hold the tempter before Adam and Eve chose to eat the fruit?
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No apparent protections against entering the garden until after the Fall.
 
Hi Pontifex,
Pontifex Geronimo 13 said:
Faith can be a wishy-washy word.
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It can also make the difference between life and death, materially and spiritually. You are well aware of the book of Hebrews. In the eleventh chapter we find a short survey of persons who lived by faith. Some among us fail to notice that faith produces action. That action consistently being out of step with the times. Noah builds a boat and avoids disaster. Abram leaves Ur of the Chaldees, a city overrun with idols. Moses leads an oppressed people out from under the thumb of Pharaoh. Jesus picks this up and informs those who faithfully follow in the way of God that they will meet resistance from both religious and political authorities. Why?

How do we reconcile the core values of the gospel, which are rooted deep in the memory of ancient Israel, with the core values of the present age? Where is the follower of Jesus called to stand? Undecided in the middle ground? Afraid to commit wholly to the discipline of God given in the name of Jesus? Reluctant to relinquish the material benefits of compliance with those who manage the market economy? It seems that there are preachers saying we ought eat, drink and be merry with a view to our imminent death. These taking death as the key to open the doors to eternal life. Such will be disappointed. The kingdom of heaven is at hand is how Jesus says it. God's presence is within us and around us as eternal life. All we need do is die to the way of this world. A decision for a new way of being in the world contrary to our inherited way of being in the world.

I know that I am hard nosed about the ideas which are leading us to ruin as a people and a planet. Even so, I am tender hearted to those who disagree with me. Also with those who resist and refuse me. Persons such as yourself. Do you understand why you place your interpretation of scripture over my relationship with the living word of God? Are you really ready to bear responsibility for making such judgement of others? Scripture suggests we be kind to strangers met along the way. It may be that they are messengers called to service in the name of God. What the ancients called angels.

"Come, let us reason together..." This is a key indicator regarding the character of persons met in places such as this. Some are open to dialogue as they follow in the way of truth. Others claim possession of the truth (objectifying it as dead letters) and insist that those who do not conform to their perspective are destined to hell. The former seems consistent with the way of God revealed in Jesus. The latter seems consistent with the way of tyrants of every time and place.

God is free and I am freely obedient. These are the words God gives me to present for any and all encountered along my way. In effect, they are seed sown by a sower. Most falls on hard or weed infested ground. Not all.

George
 
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Does love make people stupid or foolish?

If God is love ... does this drive thoughtful spirits beyond our sense of love?

Does make allowances for ships of fools though ...

Is wisdom an knowledge like a toxin or venom to love? That should Kohl the passions ... like a Kohl minor's dotter ... a younger form of Mariah ... the winds of god are ephemeral? The do come and go ... a bit wayward bi times ... bi-time is a parallel dimension ... beyond the timeless ... like when things from out there get hung up on what time is ... when time has no tangible evidence ... like a Indian Brahma ... untouchables! More BS ...

Reach out an touch one ... strange for occidental folk who hate in juNs ... the Greek version could be a Nu thing or an Eta (H) and her ready to blow over the hateful state ... when that Greek confrontation was about love making on Sunday ...

In Hebrew it is just a holy space ... inter medial zone ... poorly understood by those despising dark comple Xions ... the beginning of Xenophobia ... after that the Gods retreated ... a recessive mode! Is that close to humbling ...

Woman with golden calves are not wearing long enough robes and downright scary ... rye virtue? Sounds good ... to me but others would try to get me to avoid investigating Moor just because of the odds ... of falling for the buggy! Buggy? That's troublesome to many ... especially if you do not know its use physically, mentally and emotionally ... tis a gentile environment that can get round a man in a foolish state ...

Their behaviour drives women to tell stories about the adam M'N ... sometimes high as an Atman ... poor soul about to crash due to crisis? Tis intermittent ... like flash from a light housing ... a residence in New Orleans? There many men say goodbye to soul ... as senses are lost during a point of impact ... a very small passing spot in time ...

Thus myths to describe what the fools wouldn't hope to understand anyway ... and thus some try and control social connecting ... but control doesn't seem to work that well ... as the tyrants of control seem to loose their senses more ...

Consider the POTUS' incidents of loosing it .. and he even denies he got it ... a parable lost or displaced metaphor? You can't get any more screwed up and jacked off than that in wisdom ... Kahn yah? That's a nation in the mysterious continent ... even has a victory pool ... supplying Nile's flow ... thus Nihilism goes on ...
 
Interesting observation from the Jewish POV. Both Abraham and Noah are "righteous". Noah is "less righteous" than Abraham. Why? Because when God says "pack up and save yourselves", Noah does so. When God says similar to Abraham, he attempts to save others.
 
BetteTheRed said:
Interesting observation from the Jewish POV. Both Abraham and Noah are "righteous". Noah is "less righteous" than Abraham. Why? Because when God says "pack up and save yourselves", Noah does so. When God says similar to Abraham, he attempts to save others.
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its stories like those that point toward there not being an Answer but rathet it is the interaction with and pondering that is the Point?

Like Cain and Abel.

Both are faithful.

g_d rejects Cain's faithfulness but supports Abelz
 
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