How does one "choose" a Belief System?

[blackbelt1961]

How is he taking scripture out of context? It's as it is written. That's another variant on some of the ten commandments, most of which are pretty practical rules for living. I don't think Jewish people do any better at it, than Christian people. We are all human, prone to failure and fear and anger. I don't think religion makes a human better or worse, but it should certainly make them more thoughtful about their BS.

out of context was a generalization on my part , Palvos was suggesting that if Christians don't hold to a strict law then we are not really christian ,

he said : Are you seriously telling me that every christian adheres to this.


you are Right Bette some laws are for practical clean living , other laws are spiritual, to lump them all together and use them as a means against Christians or even Jews, not understanding if the law is a spiritual law or a law for daily living for the time and place it was given, to me is taking it out of its context.

Or not taking the whole of scripture but only parts to justify his views, is taking it out of the entire context of scripture , for example Gods Grace in Jesus covering our transgression of the law

 

[BetteTheRed]

bb, every time you do that, you put your foot in your mouth.

You have just implied that Jews are not "covered by their transgression of the law". And as soon as you do that, as soon as you imply the moral superiority of one group over another, you are making pavlos very point that christians cannot love their non-christian neighbours. Do you think you can love someone to whom you feel superior?

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

bb, every time you do that, you put your foot in your mouth.

You have just implied that Jews are not "covered by their transgression of the law". And as soon as you do that, as soon as you imply the moral superiority of one group over another, you are making pavlos very point that christians cannot love their non-christian neighbours. Do you think you can love someone to whom you feel superior?

Do you love your dog?

 

[GeoFee]

which is why Jesus is a Savior because no one can 100% adhere to the law, ever man has issues in his/her heart, but I do find it very funny when atheist take scripture out of context like you just did to justify there position.

Perhaps they picked this up by observing institutional Church practice?

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

If I believe it is better to stop at red lights and you believe it is better to go at red lights. My belief is superior and it is still no problem loving you.

one of us is going to die in our sins.

 

[Luce NDs]

Perhaps they picked this up by observing institutional Church practice?

Yes ... was Christ chummy with Thomas ... Didache in code as a guide ... agnostic query ... uncertainty personified ...

 

[BetteTheRed]

I don't love my dog as a neighbour. I love my dog as a dog. I'm not even sure that I'm morally superior to her, although I look in askance at the morality of murdering baby bunnies, which she does not (she also considers any critter smaller than a beagle as potentially prey, so it's deep-seated problem). I am the human responsible for her in a human-run world.

 

[blackbelt1961]

bb, every time you do that, you put your foot in your mouth.

I use to be able to put my foot in my mouth when I was a baby, i was flexible, today not so much

You have just implied that Jews are not "covered by their transgression of the law". And as soon as you do that, as soon as you imply the moral superiority of one group over another, you are making pavlos very point that Christians cannot love their non-christian neighbors. Do you think you can love someone to whom you feel superior?

actually , your mis interpenetrating scripture here Bette, Christians understand that because of our transgressions , we are Christians, because we understand and see that we are no better than anyone else, that we are indeed sinners, that we have no superiority that we look to a Savior , thus His Tittle Messiah.

Im not a christian because my morals are superior, Im a christian because I know there not

 

[blackbelt1961]

Do you love your dog?

I love Roxy

 

[blackbelt1961]

Perhaps they picked this up by observing institutional Church practice?

Romans 14:13-23

 

[BetteTheRed]

Quoting BB, because of :

"Christians understand that because of our transgressions , we are Christians, because we understand and see that we are no better than anyone else, that we are indeed sinners, that we have no superiority that we look to a Savior , thus His Tittle Messiah."

So those who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth was necessarily the Jewish Messiah, AND the Son of God, have picked wrongly, in your view, yes?

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

So those who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth was necessarily the Jewish Messiah, AND the Son of God, have picked wrongly, in your view, yes?

of course, they remain under the law. Not rocket surgery.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

Messianic Jews are the ones who continue to follow the God of the bible. Others have been grafted out.

 

[Pontifex Geronimo 13]

 

[Mendalla]

@Mendalla, do you think that process theology/parts thereof might be a link/continuum between pantheist and panentheist ideas of divinity?

Possibly, though most process theologians have leaned into panentheism (including Panentheism from old WC). For instance, Charles Hartshorne, one of the early Christian process theologians, has a chapter on panentheism and why it is the best fit for a process God in his "Man's Vision of God", which originally came out in 1941. I don't have enough of a theological or philosophical background to work through how process could fit between pantheism and panentheism when most process theology that is already out there is quite clearly panentheist.

(In fact, Pan tried to deconstruct my theology at one point to show that I was panentheist, not pantheist).

 

[blackbelt1961]

Quoting BB, because of :

"Christians understand that because of our transgressions , we are Christians, because we understand and see that we are no better than anyone else, that we are indeed sinners, that we have no superiority that we look to a Savior , thus His Tittle Messiah."

So those who don't believe that Jesus of Nazareth was necessarily the Jewish Messiah, AND the Son of God, have picked wrongly, in your view, yes?

that's why I preach Christ Crucified , the Son of God

 

[blackbelt1961]

 

[paradox3]

Returning to revJohn's comment above, yes, I suppose to do have a BS. Mystic-prone agnostic secular humanist non-theist if you're putting labels on it. @Mendalla, do you think that process theology/parts thereof might be a link/continuum between pantheist and panentheist ideas of divinity?

Lots of labels to unpack here. But, yes, I certainly agree that you have a belief system. Based on comments you have made in various discussions over the years. You have tried "panentheist" on for size a few times, haven't you? I recognize that belief systems change over time.

 

[Mendalla]

Lots of labels to unpack here. But, yes, I certainly agree that you have a belief system. Based on comments you have made in various discussions over the years. You have tried "panentheist" on for size a few times, haven't you? I recognize that belief systems change over time.

I was a panentheist in my last years as a Christian for sure. Once I encountered the concept in a first year religion class in university, it clicked perfectly with my then understanding of God. Later, I took a course on religion and science that specifically got into process theology (taught at St. Paul's College, the UCCan affiliate at the University of Waterloo). Good course, wonderful professor (who is no doubt long gone, he was not a young man even then). That still didn't keep me from gradually drifting away from the idea of God being a transcendent personality, which is true in panentheism, to just seeing the universe as a divine, but impersonal, creative force. I do still read process material from time to time looking to see if there is something there that might bring me back into that outlook but it hasn't "clicked" yet. It is certainly the theology that makes the most sense to me when I try to reconcile the concept of a personal God with the universe as I understand it from my interest in science.

 

[paradox3]

That still didn't keep me from gradually drifting away from the idea of God being a transcendent personality, which is true in panentheism, to just seeing the universe as a divine, but impersonal, creative force.

Would you call this view of the universe "pantheism"? It often seems to me that atheism and pantheism are flip sides of the same coin.

Panentheism is quite different, as you have pointed out.