Jesus Christ Superstar

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BetteTheRed said:
And actually, in the Arena production of which I spoke, Jesus was an Indian man.
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I would love to see Ramin Karimloo, who is an Iranian-born Canadian, do Jesus. He's already made it big as this decade's Phantom of the Opera (both in a production of the original and in the premiere of Love Never Dies, the sequel). Powerful voice and I would love to hear him sing "Gethsemane" (actually, maybe he's done it in concert or something, should check around).
 
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Mendalla said:
Jesus never said anything about profit on its own being wrong as I recall. At most, he didn't think people should be profiting from religion, as when he cleared the temple. I don't think he'd be out clearing shopping malls or anything, though he might shut down a few church garage sales. :D Whether a musical that is clearly a secularized retelling of the story fits that, I am not sure.
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I would think if the proceeds were given to the widows and the poor instead of being put in the actors and producers pocket....Maaaaaybe. Judas sold Him out for a few pieces of silver supposedly....seems this production is about business, not the gospel.
And just saying that, I feel like a prude and not cool.....but really, should we justify it?
Of course Mendalla you are coming from a different angle....so what do Christians think?
 
BetteTheRed said:
And actually, in the Arena production of which I spoke, Jesus was an Indian man.
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I was wrong. Should always look these things up. Name is Ben Forster. Very English, although in my defense, he isn't white-white looking... Dark brown eyes and often bearded.
 
Waterfall said:
I would think if the proceeds were given to the widows and the poor instead of being put in the actors and producers pocket....Maaaaaybe. Judas sold Him out for a few pieces of silver supposedly....seems this production is about business, not the gospel.
And just saying that, I feel like a prude and not cool.....but really, should we justify it?
Of course Mendalla you are coming from a different angle....so what do Christians think?
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We don't 'own' the story.
 
Waterfall said:
Gosh, must be hard to find Jewish actors in Hollywood these days.:sneaky:
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An actor isn't what is needed. You need an actor who can actually sing. This is not a role for amateur singers like they tried to do with the film of Mamma Mia.

As for Jewish, a modern Jew of European descent probably looks less like Jesus and his contemporaries than a lot of Middle Eastern and South Asian people who are Muslim by faith so I am not sure I would even bother using that as a criterion for casting.

That said, if Gal Gadot of Wonder Woman fame, who is an Israeli Jew, can sing, I would love to see her as Mary.
 
Mendalla said:
An actor isn't what is needed. You need an actor who can actually sing. This is not a role for amateur singers like they tried to do with the film of Mamma Mia.

As for Jewish, a modern Jew of European descent probably looks less like Jesus and his contemporaries than a lot of Middle Eastern and South Asian people who are Muslim by faith so I am not sure I would even bother using that as a criterion for casting.

That said, if Gal Gadot of Wonder Woman fame, who is an Israeli Jew, can sing, I would love to see her as Mary.
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And Chaim Topol still alive at 82, whoops:

 
I haver always like Superstar, even if there are issues. I think the cleansing of the temple scene (both in the lyrics by Rice and in the way Jewison staged it) miss what the economic issues there really were--it was not an open market selling weapons and sex and drugs. And while I think I see some logic in the mixing of time periods the anachronisms are a little..odd.

I actually like the chance to explore the humanity of Jesus. I also like the way the tension of Palm Sunday is so well set up -- in fact I have referred to it on more than one occasion, most recently this week where I used lines from "This Jesus Must Die" (which is fairly true in spirit to John's Gospel in chapters 11 and 12). I also appreciate the Simon Zealotes character, who is really the one pushing JEsus to revolution, Judas is more concerned things are getting out of hand from the opening song onward, as highlighting that aspect of what Messiah could be.

AS for Judas, I would not say he is the hero of the piece. (Nor am I sure Jesus is the hero, maybe there is no clear cut hero?) I would say that just as the show highlights the fully human aspect of Jesus it also humanizes Judas, who the Gospels and Christian tradition have tended to paint as a one-dimensional villain. Up thread @revjohn talked about the angelic "well done Judas" as suggesting Divine approval of betrayal. Interesting reading, in watching the movie I have always seen that affirmation coming from the Caiaphas et al (later Annas tells him he backed the right horse) rather than from an otherworldly source. IF anything God is barely a character in this very human drama.

TO say the superstar accolade shows Jesus as ego-driven shows that you have not paid attention. In the Palm Sunday scene the term is used but Jesus seems to try and deflect it "sing me your songs but not to me alone, there is not one of you who can not win the kingdom". Then when Judas uses the line in the Garden and in the song itself it is a challenge "why are you doing this all wrong?"
 
Waterfall said:
You can say that again...so many variations even among Christians, but should we be responsible?
Who is "we" Bette?
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I suppose I was thinking of "we" the Christians, when it came to the story of Jesus, but even then, of course, Judaism and Islam both have their own stories of Jesus. I think that once a story has become "holy scripture" to a people, it is "owned" by all humanity, right? Who owns the stories? Tiger used to think he did, apparently, until Spider tricked him out of them.
 
Has anyone on here seen the movie Jesus of Montreal? I found it quite interesting. Haven't seen anything like it since. Here is a clip from the movie.

 
Mendalla said:
Actually, that came from someone who admitted upfront that he hasn't seen the show and is arguing using evangelical sources that oppose the show.
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I never said that all my sources are evangelical Mendalla - not that there is anything necessarily wrong with an evangelical source.
 
Redbaron said:
Jae, how do you deal with the fact that the four evangelists in the New Testament tell the story of the Resurrection in different ways? Are they, then, four different stories? All the different details of the four accounts cannot be reconciled into one event. How do you deal with that?
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Do we read the same Bible Redbaron? Because when I read the Gospels, what I notice is the amazing harmony between them.

Personally, I keep in mind that, "...all scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach, to reprove, to chastise, to learn in rightwiseness," - 2 Timothy 3:16 (WYC).
 
What's an eve angel ... one darkly opposed to the status quo ... or opposed to change? Thus a sense of seizure or not caesura?

Senescence? One should know their phonetics ...
 
Jae said:
I never said that all my sources are evangelical Mendalla - not that there is anything necessarily wrong with an evangelical source.
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If that source is GotQuestions (as was the link you shared upthread) there may well be a problem as the writers there appear incapable of understanding that there are other interpretations of Scripture and Christina Doctrine beyond their (fairly narrow anytime I have read them) understandings.
Jae said:
Do we read the same Bible Redbaron? Because when I read the Gospels, what I notice is the amazing harmony between them.

Personally, I keep in mind that, "...all scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach, to reprove, to chastise, to learn in rightwiseness," - 2 Timothy 3:16 (WYC).
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Inspired by God does not mean all writers will be inspired in the same way or remember /tell the story the same way. And we do not really know what writings the writer of Timothy was referring to. THe Hebrew canon was relatively set by then, the Christian canon was most certainly not. But both Hebrew and Christian writings haave within them mutual inconisitencies. To focus on the Gospels:
when did Jesus clear the temple -- at the beginning of his ministry or the end?
who were the first witnesses to Easter?
when was the gift of the HS given--on Easter Day or on Pentecost?
which (if either) genealogy of Jesus is an accurate account of his pedigree?
which account of Jesus' birth is accurate -- did the Holy Family live in Bethlehem and fled to Galilee (via Egypt) to avoid Herod or did they live in Nazareth and then head to Bethlehem for a census?
 
Jae said:
Do we read the same Bible Redbaron? Because when I read the Gospels, what I notice is the amazing harmony between them.

Personally, I keep in mind that, "...all scripture inspired of God is profitable to teach, to reprove, to chastise, to learn in rightwiseness," - 2 Timothy 3:16 (WYC).
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I have reason to believe we do, in fact, read the same Bible; just that one of us hasn't read the four different accounts of the resurrection as closely the other.
 
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