Is Ontario headed for another Wynne win?

[ninj]

Agree with you on this.

There may be some (such as me) who will consider holding their noses very, very hard to vote Liberal simply to keep Ford away from the Premier's office, but I think there are very few Ontarians aside from uber-partisan Liberals who would "vote for her in a heartbeat."

I will, however, carefully consider both the Greens (my current leaning) and the NDP before thinking about the Liberals.

All else aside, 15 years is too long for one party to hold power. The Liberals are tired and out of ideas and increasingly corrupt. Normal things for a party that's been in power too long - but it is time for a change. I simply don't want the change to be Ford.

I don't believe anyone should "hold their nose" to vote. It will be an interesting race. Doug Ford isn't a given just yet. The other parties just need to get visible!

 

[ninj]

Agree with you on this.

She's had some. I would argue the word "considerable."


With reason. Skyrocketing Hydro rates. A massive surplus of electricity caused by bad contracts, and cheap electricity exports to the US while Ontarians are paying through the nose. The sell-off of hydro assets in a thinly veiled attempt to make the provinical deficit seem better.

On these points I would respond that Pharmacare for under 25's is huge. She has also supported tech r&d in Waterloo, again significant.

You make an excellent point re: hydro, but will it improve with say, the Greens? My understanding is that the switch to green energy is a bumpy (and expensive) ride too.

 

[BetteTheRed]

It is. Quite frankly, if we paid more for energy, we'd be less inclined to build these friggin' McMansions everywhere, with enough square footage to house several large families.

For those who doubt the link between cost of energy and behaviours, I offer you Quebec. Drive through Quebec sometime soon. Look at the percentage of SUVs on the road - way lower than in Ontario. Gas taxes.

 

[chansen]

Electricity costs won's stop large home building. Rich people don't think about their electricity bill. They just pay whatever it is.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Personally, I'd have to be high to vote for a party led by Doug Ford, but that's another issue.

Trust me, it doesn't have that effect. At all...

 

[Mendalla]

Electricity costs won's stop large home building. Rich people don't think about their electricity bill. They just pay whatever it is.

This. It's the people on the margins, who are scrabbling to pay their hydro bills or are even in arrears, who are hurt by hydro increases. Someone who can afford to drop $2 million for a home (and in some parts of the GTA, that doesn't even get you a McMansion, just a good sized family home) isn't going to be hurt by even a 10% increase in a hydro bill. At most, it might encourage them to put some solar panels on the roof. Someone who is living hand-to-mouth just to afford a basic apartment or pay a smallish mortgage is going to feel even a 1% increase and probably can't afford solar panels.

 

[Luce NDs]

The turmoil surrounding the Ontario PC Party continues. The same party that not long ago forced Patrick Brown OUT as leader, then decided that Patrick Brown WAS eligible to run for the PC leadership yesterday decided that Patrick Brown was NOT eligible to run as a PC candidate in the June election. I know Brown said he wasn't going to run, but this is still weird. The PC Party's position is "You weren't worthy to be our leader, but yes, you could have been our leader, but no you can't be a candidate for us." It makes no sense and continues to raise lots and lots of questions for me about their fitness to govern.

These are our role models ... so common people should conform? Now that appears to me an irrational expectation by someone in a high air ...

 

[Luce NDs]

Three months ago I was voting PC. Now it's at least a possibility that they could drive me (holding my nose really, really hard) to the Liberals, although I think I'm starting to trend toward the Greens.

And in our local newspaper, my own PC MPP (who, as I've said, I think has done a decent job and generally comes across as pretty reasonable) was featured in an article where she was virtually frothing at the mouth saying how no party leader in Ontario history has ever been as hated as Kathleen Wynne. That kind of over the top rhetoric just completely turns me off. It should be possible to disagree with Kathleen Wynne, and to say that she hasn't been a good premier and that she should be voted out without resorting to the word "hate." But Laurie Scott says she's met Doug Ford a couple of times, and he's a businessman and he'll know how to straighten things out in Ontario. Sorry. She'll have to do better than that to convince me.

And Grahame thinks that things in NB are behind times ... we've been in this sea of crap for years ... many overlook it as if walking about in a Dei Zai ... flowering Ides? Could be an emotional condition ...

 

[Luce NDs]

I don't believe anyone should "hold their nose" to vote. It will be an interesting race. Doug Ford isn't a given just yet. The other parties just need to get visible!

Does doing your business as normal have an odour about it ? Maybe it says something about normal business ...

 

[Luce NDs]

This. It's the people on the margins, who are scrabbling to pay their hydro bills or are even in arrears, who are hurt by hydro increases. Someone who can afford to drop $2 million for a home (and in some parts of the GTA, that doesn't even get you a McMansion, just a good sized family home) isn't going to be hurt by even a 10% increase in a hydro bill. At most, it might encourage them to put some solar panels on the roof. Someone who is living hand-to-mouth just to afford a basic apartment or pay a smallish mortgage is going to feel even a 1% increase and probably can't afford solar panels.

Marginal people can be simply eliminated off the edge ... by simple denial that they exist ... sort of like intellect in the political-business complex ...

 

[Mendalla]

So let me get this straight, Ms. Wynne, you prorogued Parliament, putting all bills currently in process back to square one, just so you can have the Lieutenant-Governor read a campaign speech?

Meanwhile, the NDP is planning to spend money like a pack of drunken lottery winners.

Oh boy, I am not looking forward to this election.

 

[BetteTheRed]

In all fairness, she a) did it over a weekend, so no sitting days were lost and b) promised to re-introduce any bills stranded by the pro-rogue. She's really trying.

 

[BetteTheRed]

I don't know what to do. Liberals could win again in my riding. Greens have no chance here. NDP are not behaving themselves in any way that I can get behind. Strong new Con candidate in my riding...

 

[Mendalla]

In all fairness, she a) did it over a weekend, so no sitting days were lost and b) promised to re-introduce any bills stranded by the pro-rogue. She's really trying.

But there was absolutely no valid reason to have to re-introduce those bills. They could have stayed in process and the Libs could have used the budget to make their "keep the voters happy" announcements. It's only a week away, IIRC. Yes, they didn't lose any sitting days but I honestly do not see that anything was accomplished, either, other that to use the throne speech as a campaign intro. It's cynical politics at its finest and the kind of things that puts me off politics.

As for really trying, really trying to do what? Come across as even more crassly, cynically political than she already has?

 

[Luce NDs]

Cynical politics????? I thought that was reserved for the silent majority ... the paradigm ... average Joes and Josephine's ... common chits as small things to those tending towards rapid satisfaction of their imaginary powers!

Eliminate the poor, shoot them all as dealing in drugs dopamine's and other wild endocrines ... unseen but thoroughly upsetting by times!

 

[BetteTheRed]

As for really trying, really trying to do what? Come across as even more crassly, cynically political than she already has?

Trying to position her party as something other than one that's very visibly been in power too long. I'm not saying she's doing a good job, but I think her options are pretty limited. What would you do if you were liberal leader? (I mean, not pro-rogue, obviously, but what?)

 

[chansen]

Hey Andrea Horwath, here's your best possible chance. An incredibly unpopular and conniving Kathleen Wynne on one side of you, and Doug Ford on the other. You're running against an unpopular premier, and one a**hole. Best chance since Bob Rae.

 

[Mendalla]

Trying to position her party as something other than one that's very visibly been in power too long. I'm not saying she's doing a good job, but I think her options are pretty limited. What would you do if you were liberal leader? (I mean, not pro-rogue, obviously, but what?)

Resign and endorse someone as far removed from myself and McGuinty as possible.

I certainly would not prorogue like that. Just looks bad in this situation.

I would put together a solid, realistic, centrist platform that might actually differentiate me from the NDP. Introduce some of that in this budget, putting a focus on balancing fiscal restraint with improving existing programs. Maybe have a longterm fiscal plan as part of this budget that proposes new spending on a realistic timeline. Basically, give centre and centre-right voters who are nervous about deficits but also about Ford's courting of the so-cons a reason to look at me. New programs can wait until the existing ones (e.g. home care, which is in a bit of a mess) are working up to snuff. This notion they seem to have they can win by out-NDP'ing the NDP is part of the problem. A lot of centre and centre-right voters who are worried about the debt and deficit are going to be feeling that their only option is the PCs, in spite of possible concerns about the so-con wing of the party, when they see both the Libs and NDP throwing out spending proposals like crazy when our deficit is already high.

Then I would contrast that with Ford's social conservatism and shoot-from-the-lip policy making, pointing out that his approach is no more realistic or centrist than that of the NDP.

 

[Luce NDs]

Resign and endorse someone as far removed from myself and McGuinty as possible.

I certainly would not prorogue like that. Just looks bad in this situation.

I would put together a solid, realistic, centrist platform that might actually differentiate me from the NDP. Introduce some of that in this budget, putting a focus on balancing fiscal restraint with improving existing programs. Maybe have a longterm fiscal plan as part of this budget that proposes new spending on a realistic timeline. Basically, give centre and centre-right voters who are nervous about deficits but also about Ford's courting of the so-cons a reason to look at me. New programs can wait until the existing ones (e.g. home care, which is in a bit of a mess) are working up to snuff. This notion they seem to have they can win by out-NDP'ing the NDP is part of the problem. A lot of centre and centre-right voters who are worried about the debt and deficit are going to be feeling that their only option is the PCs, in spite of possible concerns about the so-con wing of the party, when they see both the Libs and NDP throwing out spending proposals like crazy when our deficit is already high.

Then I would contrast that with Ford's social conservatism and shoot-from-the-lip policy making, pointing out that his approach is no more realistic or centrist than that of the NDP.

Is politic the id-eaL illustration of caring intelligence? The virtue is probably still beyond us ... supporting the concept of psyche beyond us ... as a deep dark place ... Maria h's well?

 

[Jaebius]

Trying to position her party as something other than one that's very visibly been in power too long. I'm not saying she's doing a good job, but I think her options are pretty limited. What would you do if you were liberal leader? (I mean, not pro-rogue, obviously, but what?)

First thing she should do imho is apologize on behalf of herself and her government for the radical sex-ed.