Resurrection: Does Your Minister/Church Preach What You Believe?
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airclean33
Well-Known Member
airclean33
Well-Known Member
--Airclean--post -...........
Really John you may understand why Blackbelt, and I don't agree". As He ok's every thing you post". By the way John Blackbelt is smart enough ,to ask his question' s. Don't you think?
revsdd
Well-Known Member
KA-POW!!!!! Take that, blackbelt.
In all honesty, airclean, you really are seeming a bit hostile on this thread. I mean, I know you're convinced that because you have the Holy Spirit you have to teach all the rest of us the right things to believe and the right way to be "a born again." You don't seem to realize how arrogant you sometimes sound, and how un-Christ-like that seems. That can be frustrating at times, but I get it and I think that in general your intentions are good. Generally speaking, I like you, because you don't play games. You say what you think. But you're seeming very hostile here toward pretty much everybody and as @revjohn has pointed out you're seeming less focused than usual, and - sincerely - I want to ask if there's anything wrong.
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
revjohn
Well-Known Member
airclean33 said:
No surprise there right?
Assemblies of Yahweh said:
So, do you belong to the Assemblies of Yahweh or was it just handy internet search result?
As mentioned earlier Yeshua means "to save" or "to deliver." The Assemblies of Yahweh mistake Matthew 1: 21 as a definition of the name.
Matthew 1: 21 said:
By this the assemblies of God claims that the proper definition of Yeshua is not simply, "to save" or "to deliver" but rather "to save his people from their sins." Which would be great if the Greek supported that argument. It doesn't. We know that because if all of the elements the Assemblies of God points to were part of one name they would appear in the same case within the Greek text. The fact that they don't defeats that argument.
It is possible that they formed this argument from reading Mounce's interlinear English-Greek version of the New Testament.
Mounce Matthew 1: 21 said:
The Greek is transliterated but it is by no means meant to be a reproduction of the actual Greek text. A Greek student would notice some issues in Mounce's work if it was intended to be a translation. Most noticeable is the use of the Nominative case following the preposition "apo." This is horrible Greek Grammar. And because everything is here in the Nominative case it means every noun is the subject of the sentence. So yes, if you read Mounce thinking it deals with a translation you could come to the conclusion that you were literally supposed to think Yeshua means "he save the people from their sin.
When one looks at the actual Greek text one sees something quite different.
GNT Matthew 1: 21 said:
What one notices is that the preposition apo (ἀπὸ) does what it is supposed to do and takes the Genitive case. So his name will be Jesus. Why? Because "He will save". Who will he save? His people. From what? From their sins. The only way one reads Matthew 1: 21 as a redefinition of Yeshua is ignorantly. Three different cases in that sentence show which ideas related and connected to Jesus. Because they do not share the same case they are not intended to be equated.
Not to mention Yeshua is not a unique name in scripture. We come across it several times and for the Matthew 1: 21 argument to have weight we would have to see the name defined the same way every time. It isn't.
Which is why I disagree with the argument put forward by the Assemblies of Yahweh that you agree with.
BetteTheRed
Resident Heretic
- Pronouns
- She/Her/Her
You do know, revJohn, that I'd be a Calvinist just because of the way you write...if only it weren't against my religion, lol....
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
LOL
acts 26:28 .Then Agrippa said to Paul, “You almost persuade me to become a Christian.”
blackbelt1961
Well-Known Member
I hope Airclean is not a member of the AOY, I did some reading up on it , they are a strict Legalistic church that adhere to the Old testament laws except for blood sacrifices and adhere to a strict literal reading of the NT. Also Jesus was not pre existent and do not believe in the Trinity concept of co equal persons. A Cult.
talk about control, no wonder Jesus said thous who believe are free indeed
revsdd
Well-Known Member
I checked them out as well, blackbelt, and had the same concerns. They are a very legalistic group with some very unorthodox beliefs. The word "cult" had popped into my mind as well, but since I really have never heard of them until this thread I'm not prepared to go quite that far. But I had the same thought.
Neo
Well-Known Member
"During European witch trials between the 15th and 18th centuries, people accused of witchcraft were commonly burned at the stake. ... Church and civic leaders led the charge, executing as many as 50,000 people across Europe in what is now France, Germany, Italy, Scandinavia and Scotland"
"Welcome to the home of open-minded discussion and exploration of spiritual topics, moral issues and life's big questions, brought to you by the WonderCafe2 community."
I know these two statements don't appear to have much in common on the surface, and of course in no way am I equating Airclean and Unsafe’s accusation against me to the atrocities of the (mostly) Church sanctioned witch burnings only a few hundred years ago, but being labelled a "false prophet" is most definitely one of the first steps down a road we probably don't want to go down again. And it's simply not conducive towards any kind of “open minded discussions” that this site is supposed to espouse. As a society we should feel free to express ourselves without the heavy handed criticism and paranoia of the religious right. First it's on some anonymous internet forum, next it's in our community. It's a slippery road we travel once we start labelling people as ‘agents of the devil’. It leads down a road we’ve been down before, and it that road never ends well.
I reported Aircleans post today. I was kind of waiting to see if he held any kind of remorse, but in his mind he's seems to be fighting to devil himself, instead of just some guy on an internet forum.
Airclean and Unsafe, if you two could believe just one thing I’ve ever said here at the Cafe, then let it be this: “attachment” is our biggest enemy. It's not the devil, the anti-christ, a false prophet or even Satan himself we have to be worried about, it's our own attachments to things. Especially those things that run past their due date. If money is held on to too tightly then greed and selfishness are sure to follow. The same goes with the old and outdated dogmas we grow into believing. The more they crystallize, the harder they become. We were not meant, as human beings, to believe in just one thing forever and ever, we are meant to expand. And I'm not talking a belief in the Christ here, I'm talking about the doctrines that surround that belief in Christ. If those doctrines create an "us vs them" attitude then attachment is rearing it's ugly head.
***
As a former moderator, a current administrator and a general member of this forum, I believe this whole "false prophet" accusation should be taken seriously. Even if symbolically, Airclean should know that this kind of behaviour is not tolerated anymore. The WonderCafe is supposed to be a home for open-minded discussion, not a Christian-views-only site where all other views are damned and treated with disdain.
Calling someone a false prophet needs to come with some serious proof, which is another reason I waited a few days before reporting. But I only heard religious rhetoric by both Airclean and Unsafe. Not a single shred of evidence, except in the case of Airclean where he openly, and with Trumponian irony, pretty much claimed himself to be the only spokesmen for the Holy Spirit here, and that we should all listen to him because of this claim and this claim only. Go figure that he called "me" a false prophet. Oh yea, and Unsafe wrongly accused me of never saying things like "I believe" or "in my opinion", etc. Which is simply not true Unsafe, talk about cherry picking quotes.
***
So I've been thinking of taking a break from the Cafe for a while now, I suppose this time is as good as any. I’m sure I’ll be back one day but not as Admin anymore.
I'd like thank those who’ve liked my posts in the past, an open mind can be an amazing thing. And thanks to the Revs, John and Stephen, I actually learned a lot from both of you, (though not enough to be a Calvinist mind you! {wink} ).
For Airclean and Unsafe, I'll leave you with the video below with nothing but tounge-in-cheek in mind, I don't want to leave here with any hard feelings. The video seems so approprié for you both considering Christianity is the "sign of Ichthys", yet I wonder if either of you really know why. Please, watch the video right to the end. It makes a lot more sense if you knew about the movie and the books it was based on.
I will, however, leave you with one last prediction, how could I not since you already believe me to be false prophet. But I'm not pretending to speak for God here, in any way, shape or form. I'm rather speaking basic astronomy when I say to you that: the Age of the Fish is ending now and is being quickly being replaced by the Age of the Water Bearer, (aka the man bearing the pitcher of water whom the disciples were instructed to follow). If I were to attribute any kind of meaning to this event then that would be astrology. The "passing of the ages", however, is as basic an astronomical fact as predicting that spring will follow winter. The Zodiac is like a great 26,000 year clock, with a new constellation appearing on the horizon once every 2,160 years. That new constellation is Aquarius.
Cheers, so long and thanks for all the fish.
Neo-Rick
"Welcome to the home of open-minded discussion and exploration of spiritual topics, moral issues and life's big questions, brought to you by the WonderCafe2 community."
I know these two statements don't appear to have much in common on the surface, and of course in no way am I equating Airclean and Unsafe’s accusation against me to the atrocities of the (mostly) Church sanctioned witch burnings only a few hundred years ago, but being labelled a "false prophet" is most definitely one of the first steps down a road we probably don't want to go down again. And it's simply not conducive towards any kind of “open minded discussions” that this site is supposed to espouse. As a society we should feel free to express ourselves without the heavy handed criticism and paranoia of the religious right. First it's on some anonymous internet forum, next it's in our community. It's a slippery road we travel once we start labelling people as ‘agents of the devil’. It leads down a road we’ve been down before, and it that road never ends well.
I reported Aircleans post today. I was kind of waiting to see if he held any kind of remorse, but in his mind he's seems to be fighting to devil himself, instead of just some guy on an internet forum.
Airclean and Unsafe, if you two could believe just one thing I’ve ever said here at the Cafe, then let it be this: “attachment” is our biggest enemy. It's not the devil, the anti-christ, a false prophet or even Satan himself we have to be worried about, it's our own attachments to things. Especially those things that run past their due date. If money is held on to too tightly then greed and selfishness are sure to follow. The same goes with the old and outdated dogmas we grow into believing. The more they crystallize, the harder they become. We were not meant, as human beings, to believe in just one thing forever and ever, we are meant to expand. And I'm not talking a belief in the Christ here, I'm talking about the doctrines that surround that belief in Christ. If those doctrines create an "us vs them" attitude then attachment is rearing it's ugly head.
***
As a former moderator, a current administrator and a general member of this forum, I believe this whole "false prophet" accusation should be taken seriously. Even if symbolically, Airclean should know that this kind of behaviour is not tolerated anymore. The WonderCafe is supposed to be a home for open-minded discussion, not a Christian-views-only site where all other views are damned and treated with disdain.
Calling someone a false prophet needs to come with some serious proof, which is another reason I waited a few days before reporting. But I only heard religious rhetoric by both Airclean and Unsafe. Not a single shred of evidence, except in the case of Airclean where he openly, and with Trumponian irony, pretty much claimed himself to be the only spokesmen for the Holy Spirit here, and that we should all listen to him because of this claim and this claim only. Go figure that he called "me" a false prophet. Oh yea, and Unsafe wrongly accused me of never saying things like "I believe" or "in my opinion", etc. Which is simply not true Unsafe, talk about cherry picking quotes.
***
So I've been thinking of taking a break from the Cafe for a while now, I suppose this time is as good as any. I’m sure I’ll be back one day but not as Admin anymore.
I'd like thank those who’ve liked my posts in the past, an open mind can be an amazing thing. And thanks to the Revs, John and Stephen, I actually learned a lot from both of you, (though not enough to be a Calvinist mind you! {wink} ).
For Airclean and Unsafe, I'll leave you with the video below with nothing but tounge-in-cheek in mind, I don't want to leave here with any hard feelings. The video seems so approprié for you both considering Christianity is the "sign of Ichthys", yet I wonder if either of you really know why. Please, watch the video right to the end. It makes a lot more sense if you knew about the movie and the books it was based on.
I will, however, leave you with one last prediction, how could I not since you already believe me to be false prophet. But I'm not pretending to speak for God here, in any way, shape or form. I'm rather speaking basic astronomy when I say to you that: the Age of the Fish is ending now and is being quickly being replaced by the Age of the Water Bearer, (aka the man bearing the pitcher of water whom the disciples were instructed to follow). If I were to attribute any kind of meaning to this event then that would be astrology. The "passing of the ages", however, is as basic an astronomical fact as predicting that spring will follow winter. The Zodiac is like a great 26,000 year clock, with a new constellation appearing on the horizon once every 2,160 years. That new constellation is Aquarius.
Cheers, so long and thanks for all the fish.
Neo-Rick
revjohn
Well-Known Member
I will watch the first video later. I'm very familiar with the second.
Sometimes breaks are necessary.
I applaud your wisdom in discerning that now might be time for you to take one. I am also cognizant that WC2 may just be the easiest stick in a heavy bundle to be rid of.
If you are feeling stressors elsewhere in your life beyond this place I hope that the break here gives you strength for that struggle.
Thank you for all of your assistance to this project.
And of course, we will keep your chair warm for you just in case things settle and you can pick this stick back up again.
Grace, peace and strength to you on your way.
Sometimes breaks are necessary.
I applaud your wisdom in discerning that now might be time for you to take one. I am also cognizant that WC2 may just be the easiest stick in a heavy bundle to be rid of.
If you are feeling stressors elsewhere in your life beyond this place I hope that the break here gives you strength for that struggle.
Thank you for all of your assistance to this project.
And of course, we will keep your chair warm for you just in case things settle and you can pick this stick back up again.
Grace, peace and strength to you on your way.
Neo, sometimes taking a break from things is needed. I do hope you'll have a good one, the one that you need.
The things you write are often a puzzle to me, challenging my accepted beliefs. I feel what you call us all to is authenticity. To believe things because we ourselves genuinely do rather than just swallowing down whatever religious authorities may throw out at us. As such, your voice should be welcomed and cherished here.
You are not a false prophet Neo, and I do feel you'll be back.
The things you write are often a puzzle to me, challenging my accepted beliefs. I feel what you call us all to is authenticity. To believe things because we ourselves genuinely do rather than just swallowing down whatever religious authorities may throw out at us. As such, your voice should be welcomed and cherished here.
You are not a false prophet Neo, and I do feel you'll be back.
To the winners in the God Game ... another small thing gone ... what is the consequence when all the small things are disposed of?
Some say the escape is to let all substance go ... especially extremes ... that's metaphorical polity ... runs churches ... the medium, and midst parts are hypo ... below the winners. Tis enough to support thoughts about what's overhead worth ... and thus folly of disbelief in collapse of sea in char NG! Let the fires rage ... will warm the waters of delusion ... separated from deluge? Word like god is an odd thing ... altered on whim?
What s the point of conflict against those opposed to knowledge and wisdom of greater things of god? Tis depressing ... leaves us in a' niche ... like Dant's Theory about "v" versus "^" and what's updoc! These hang too ... hidden ... respect the unseen ... tis script 'd ... like brutes of naïveté ...
Some say the escape is to let all substance go ... especially extremes ... that's metaphorical polity ... runs churches ... the medium, and midst parts are hypo ... below the winners. Tis enough to support thoughts about what's overhead worth ... and thus folly of disbelief in collapse of sea in char NG! Let the fires rage ... will warm the waters of delusion ... separated from deluge? Word like god is an odd thing ... altered on whim?
What s the point of conflict against those opposed to knowledge and wisdom of greater things of god? Tis depressing ... leaves us in a' niche ... like Dant's Theory about "v" versus "^" and what's updoc! These hang too ... hidden ... respect the unseen ... tis script 'd ... like brutes of naïveté ...
