Sunday is coming...Crossing teh Red Sea

[GordW]

An edited version of what I posted here: http://revgalblogpals.org/2014/09/23/narrative-lectionary-leanings-wade-in-the-water-edition/

There is an old African-American Spiritual that comes to mind this week:

Wade in the water
Wade in the water children
Wade in the water.
God’s gonna trouble the water…..

The path to freedom leads through the water.

That’s right, this week we cross the Red (or Reed) Sea. God troubles the water in a BIG way (being able to make this scene was considered a cinematic triumph when Mr. DeMille made his little movie starring Mr. Heston and Mr Brynner — I always like Brynner’s Pharaoh better than Heston’s Moses…what does that say about me?) And does the Universal Studios tour still include crossing the sea?

The Reading for the week can be found here: http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=278489849

They have finally made the break from slavery only to be trapped at the edge of the sea. And the people ask (not for the last time) “why did you bring us out here to die?”. Moses turns to God who parts the waters, then drown the Egyptian army.

I find this a difficult story to preach. I mean theoretically I know that at this point in time the Scripture is still revealing a God who is a family/tribal/national God, not the God who is God of all the nations. And I know that the idea of the family/tribal/national God fighting on behalf of the people is common to many ancient mythologies. But still is the God we follow, the God in whom we live and move and have our being, the God we meet in Christ and attested to by the witness of the communion of saints this tribal and vindictive and cruel?

My preaching question is Does God take sides?

Because we still talk as if God takes sides. We still talk about the God who leads us into war in a just cause, or who we pray will help the home team win the big game. And on the face of it that is the God we meet here. A God who chooses a side and destroys their enemies. And I find that picture of God troubling. I find that picture of God leads us away from the Gospel of Christ. Because if we God is on our side then what does that allow us to say about our enemies?

There are other sides of the story to preach on of course. Part of the story is of the God who does not abandon God’s people, even when they are about to be destroyed. This is the God that allows those of us who use the United Church Creed to open and close with the affirmation We Are Not Alone.

Or one could preach on the need for faith. I seem to recall an old midrash on the story which said that the waters would not part until the first person took the leap of faith and waded out into the water. The people are convinced they are to die, faith allows them to be saved.

What do you find in the waters of the Red Sea?

ANd I think I need to watch Prince of Egypt this week as part of my sermon preparation for the next two Sundays.

 

[Mendalla]

Ridley Scott is tackling the story for his next epic (I actually liked him better when he was doing smaller scale s-f movies like Alien and Bladerunner but I digress) Exodus : Gods and Kings. I guess the success of Noah is going to bring a rash of biblical epics from name directors.

I think the UUs have usually spun it out as the God who sides with the oppressed, both literal and spiritual, and leads them away from oppression to safety. We have the Israelites oppressed and enslaved and the Egyptians as the oppressive establishment that enslaves them. God brings them to safety. However, in doing so, He also gives the oppressors a smack upside the head and this view does not really deal with the collateral damage that smack inflicts on the Egyptians (e.g. the angel of death claiming their firstborn) regardless of who they were and how they treated the Israelites. IOW, it does not ask whether the smack upside the head was a just one.

 

[Waterfall]

Well we face this even today don't we? How far should evil be allowed to continue without stepping in to stop it? How many warnings does Isis get? How many warnings did Pharoah get?

The Lords prayer says "lead us not into temptation" but the Jews will tell you that God doesn't and never has, led anyone to temptation. Their prayer doesn't include this line. Instead they ask God not to test them. Eventually I think we are all tested in one way or another. For the Israelites, do they accept slavery and for the Egyptians do they continue to condone it?

Parting of the waters? Maybe that's decision time?

 

[Inukshuk]

"My preaching question is Does God take sides?"

I do not believe that God takes sides. When I visualize this story, I see bare footed Israelites navigating across a shallow marshy bog. The Egyptian soldiers that followed were weighed down with armour and chariots, and got stuck in the muck. The baggage the Egyptians chose to carry - real and symbolically - made it impossible for them to be saved by God/Yahweh.

 

[blackbelt1961]

God does not take sides, I know, I been Praying for Leaf Nation for 40 yrs and still nada

 

[blackbelt1961]

so Gord

do you believe the parting of the Red Sea to be factual or just a myth story to learn from

 

[BetteTheRed]

"My preaching question is Does God take sides?"

I do not believe that God takes sides. When I visualize this story, I see bare footed Israelites navigating across a shallow marshy bog. The Egyptian soldiers that followed were weighed down with armour and chariots, and got stuck in the muck. The baggage the Egyptians chose to carry - real and symbolically - made it impossible for them to be saved by God/Yahweh.

The problem with that metaphorical analysis is that it immediately follows God slaughtering every Egyptian's first born, and that strikes me a clear indication of taking sides. Worse, God engineered it, because he keeps on talking about hardening Pharoah's heart, so that these ever more gut-wrenchingly awful plagues are necessary.

 

[Mendalla]

The problem with that metaphorical analysis is that it immediately follows God slaughtering every Egyptian's first born, and that strikes me a clear indication of taking sides. Worse, God engineered it, because he keeps on talking about hardening Pharoah's heart, so that these ever more gut-wrenchingly awful plagues are necessary.

This, however, speaks back to GordW's point about the story reflecting a tribal understanding of God as being the Israelite's God, not a universal God, and his taking of the Egyptian lives was to protect His people. It's certainly is not a literal story (there is no record of the annihilation of a large number of men ever found in Egyptian histories) but one that reflects the Hebrew understanding of God as their protector taking action against their enemies.

How we then expand that story to a modern notion of a universal God becomes a real struggle, unless you take it to a very broad "it shows that the mighty oppressors shall suffer" level.

 

[blackbelt1961]

This, however, speaks back to GordW's point about the story reflecting a tribal understanding of God as being the Israelite's God, not a universal God, and his taking of the Egyptian lives was to protect His people. It's certainly is not a literal story (there is no record of the annihilation of a large number of men ever found in Egyptian histories) but one that reflects the Hebrew understanding of God as their protector taking action against their enemies.

.

Or , we have a Unknown Universal God among many other gods, which the Universal God reveals Himself as such through a choice people.

a question of , will the real Creator please stand up

 

[GordW]

so Gord

do you believe the parting of the Red Sea to be factual or just a myth story to learn from

There may be a germ of remembered history. As in I think there was a group of escaped slaves/captives (but not a whole nation) who later became the leaders of the area called Israel. How that escape happened I do not think we will ever truly know. I suspect the escapee might have been much more violent than the story they later told lets on. Either way, the system of many ancient mythologies would hold that the winning side won because their God was stronger.

But I also am convinced that historicity is not the question we need to ask of Scripture. What does the way the story is told tell us about the people's understanding of God, how is God revealed in this story is far more important to me than trying to determine what "really" happened.

 

[GordW]

Or , we have a Unknown Universal God among many other gods, which the Universal God reveals Himself as such through a choice people.

a question of , will the real Creator please stand up

OR we have a people who did not fully understand who God is, being limited by their understanding of how gods operate.

There is a Midrash which suggests the whole Exodus was engineered by a group of angels who were proud of their success until they noticed God was heartbroken. Why do you weep when your children the Israelites are free? Because my children the Egyptians are dead.

In Scripture we have the account of people's understanding and experience of God in their world. Sometimes they may have got it wrong (seeing as through a mirror dimly as we do). Sometimes we may misunderstand God.

 

[blackbelt1961]

OR we have a people who did not fully understand who God is, being limited by their understanding of how gods operate.

and thus a chosen people to reveal Himself through

 

[GordW]

and thus a chosen people to reveal Himself through

maybe...
or maybe several....if you believe that God is revealed in many guises and many traditions. After all the only witness we have that there is a Chosen People comes from those people

 

[blackbelt1961]

maybe...
or maybe several....if you believe that God is revealed in many guises and many traditions.

as long as there is no contradiction in other traditions with scripture i can agree, unfortunately , there is

After all the only witness we have that there is a Chosen People comes from those people

and Jesus witness would be? and the Apostles would be?

 

[BetteTheRed]

We're still talking Torah here, so we're pre-Jesus and the apostles.

Gord, I love your midrash. Allah weeps for Allah's Jewish and Palestinian people right now.

 

[blackbelt1961]

as long as there is no contradiction in other traditions with scripture i can agree





and Jesus witness would be?

We're still talking Torah here, so we're pre-Jesus and the apostles.

but that would be a problem, its like answering questions when only reading a book half way , Torah has a concussion

 

[BetteTheRed]

Only to Christians. Torah is complete to Jews.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Only to Christians. Torah is complete to Jews.

not All Jews ,

messianic Jews come to mind

 

[Mendalla]

and Jesus witness would be? and the Apostles would be?

Jews, mostly, and hence part of the Chosen people, thereby making Gord's point for him.

 

[BetteTheRed]

Messianic Jews aren't Jews, they're Christians.