TRUMP - Some people think......... How do you feel?

[Mendalla]

When in doubt, bomb the hell out of, or invade, something is a policy that carries you a long way in US politics, I find. It's not really a Trump thing and I'm not going to roast him for it. Almost every president in my lifetime has done it at some point (Carter may be an exception but that my just be my memory and his short tenure). Some have done it more than others (Johnson/Nixon with Vietnam, the Bushes with their wars in the Middle East) of course.

 

[revsdd]

When in doubt, bomb the hell out of, or invade, something is a policy that carries you a long way in US politics, I find. It's not really a Trump thing and I'm not going to roast him for it. Almost every president in my lifetime has done it at some point (Carter may be an exception but that my just be my memory and his short tenure). Some have done it more than others (Johnson/Nixon with Vietnam, the Bushes with their wars in the Middle East) of course.

Carter didn't do a lot of that sort of thing that I recall, either. He did order the military rescue mission of the hostages in Tehran. If it had worked it would have been a spectacular coup and Carter might have been re-elected in 1980. But it failed, several troops died and some of the aircraft used crashed. It was a huge embarrassment, and probably led directly to his big loss to Ronald Reagan.

 

[Seeler]

Let us not ignore some political calculations here as well. First, given the recent chemical attack, there's going to be a lot of sympathy for the action against Syria. So Trump looks (1) like he cares about those who died, and (2) really tough - which his "MAGA" base is probably going to eat up. Also, presidential approval ratings tend to go up after this kind of thing. (As I recall, Bill Clinton ordered an attack against Iraq at the height of the impeachment debate, and managed to stall the House's vote to impeach for a few days at least because the feeling was you couldn't impeach a president who was commanding in a time of battle!) Second, Trump's big problem recently has been the so-called "Russia connection," and the accusation that he is too close to or even influenced by Russia. This was an action against a Russian ally, and Tillerson got to say some pretty harsh things about Putin's Russia - "complicit or incompetent," I believe were his words - and this morning the Kremlin is saying some pretty harsh things about the US. A body blow to the "influenced by Russia" or "in Putin's pocket" argument. Third, the attack came as the president of China is in Florida. Undoubtedly, one of the issues discussed was North Korea - thus, the message: "see, we're willing to act alone when we have to." As for the Xi visit, having him at Mar-a-Lago was actually an interesting political move - at least potentially. Going to the White House is routine, and a reminder of the US political structure and the limits it places on the president. At Mar-a-Lago, Xi is right in the Donald's personal fiefdom, where everyone defers to him and his word is law.

Lots of interesting stuff in the last 24-48 hours.

Almost exactly what I was thinking, Steve. Nothing like the threat of war to make a president look strong and necessary.

 

[revjohn]

Given the players involved there is probably a temptation to spin this one way or another.

I don't doubt for a moment that much of this is political theatre. I just can't tell, at the moment, whether it is good or bad political theatre. Probably take some time to sort all of it out.

I do think that giving Putin a heads up that Russian Troops at or near the intended target was courteous. I presume that if they had enough time to yank their troops they had enough time to contact their Syrian allies and share the same news.

Somebody is going to have to build 59 replacement Tomohawk missles though so score one for job creation.

Claim the target used Chemical Warfare (or has WMD) it is an old script. Which is not me doubting that chemicals were used so much as it is me saying that their are conflicting stories of how those chemicals came into play. Which is the truthful one?

And the US and Russia get to lob rhetorical bombs at one another because you know if they were friendly they wouldn't be saying such nasty things right?

I don't trust the actors enough to know what the truth of this matter actually is.

 

[Waterfall]

Maybe he does really care about the people Steven.

If he cared about the people and the "little babies" he wouldn't have lowered the amount of refugees the US is willing to accept or put a ban on Syrian travel to the US.

The world was moved into accepting more refugees after the picture of a lifeless 3 year old Aylan Kurdi's body washed ashore and pictures of him were transmitted all around the world. Now the world is being moved after seeing little children being gassed and suffering horribly during this war....as if the children hadn't been suffering horribly through other means before these pictures were shown.

And when it comes right down to it, it was 4 thirteen and fourteen year old boys, that led to the beginning of the Syrian war by writing graffiti on the wall of their school during the Arab Spring uprising demanding democracy. Those "children" were hauled away by the Assad government and tortured for just drawing graffiti and the country reacted in a big way through peaceful protests that quickly turned to bloodshed and is ongoing today.

I hate to say it, but it seems children are being used as pawns and propaganda to "move" us emotionally and justify wars.
Women , children, hospitals, schools are supposed to be off limits in wars, but it never happens does it? Because every good soldier knows that the enemies children are tomorrows soldiers that will continue fighting against them.

So now we have President Trump, who has responded with a knee jerk reaction based on children being gassed horribly (at least we are being led to believe that, despite the fact that this has happened before), without considering any other alternatives to put a stop to this carnage. His response is to fight evil with evil by using weapons and what American, after seeing those pictures, wouldn't agree in the moment also? Before this the US chose not to be involved, why would THIS chemical attack change that?

The American people will be driven emotionally into a war with weapons. Diplomacy has been lost.

Everyone should be on the alert for the real purpose of this response to Syria.

 

[Waterfall]

Between 2004 and 2010 the British gov't allowed 5 export licences to 2 companies allowing them to sell sodium fluoride to Syria.
Sodium Fluoride is necessary for the production of Sarin. These companies say it was a legitimate sale to a Syrian cosmetics company for the production of their product. The British gov't refused to reveal the names of these companies.
In 2012 two more export licences were granted on the eve of the Syrian civil war for sodium fluoride and potassium fluoride.

Could these shipments have been stockpiled by the Syrian gov't and then used for chemical weapons? Would a country be able to survive without these chemicals? Seems like a possible bargaining tool for a trade embargo until all stockpiled chemicals are destroyed.

Note: sodium fluoride is used in cosmetics,health products, toothpaste, pesticides, fungicides, insecticides, water filtration systems, wood preservers, steel manufacturing, etc...
EU classifications of Xi= irritant and T=Toxic

 

[Ritafee]

59 cruise missiles sent into a Syrian military air base because the 'president' was 'disturbed' by deeply disturbing images of children gassed in Syria.

'He' was, on the other hand, 'evidently undisturbed' by the children his own military killed recently in a botched raid in Yemen.

Dropping more bombs (or missiles) is going to do what exactly for the victims of the Syrian 'civil' war?

Trump claiming that America had a “vital national security interest” to oppose chemical weapons and suppress terrorism is nonsense.

Futile and hypocritical reasons.

Is there more virtue in the the west’s fragmentation, phosphorous and delayed action bombs leaving victims just as maimed and dead?

Drones devastating the innocent as much as the guilty?

The west really has no 'interest' in the Syrian civil war, which its interventions have done nothing but prolong.

The world has a universal humanitarian obligation to help the victims of war.

There are already about 3 million casualties of the Syrian war.

Relieving, not prolonging, their suffering should be the priority.

Dropping ever more bombs on Syria does nothing for them.

Lol. Okay. I guess you don't want to name the news sources.

Is there really any point for anyone to provide you with news sources?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Didn't Obama barter a deal with Russia to negotiate with Assad to get all the chemical weapons out of Syria?

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

59 cruise missiles sent into a Syrian military air base because the 'president' was 'disturbed' by deeply disturbing images of children gassed in Syria.

'He' was, on the other hand, 'evidently undisturbed' by the children his own military killed recently in a botched raid in Yemen.

Dropping more bombs (or missiles) is going to do what exactly for the victims of the Syrian 'civil' war?

Trump claiming that America had a “vital national security interest” to oppose chemical weapons and suppress terrorism is nonsense.

Futile and hypocritical reasons.

Is there more virtue in the the west’s fragmentation, phosphorous and delayed action bombs leaving victims just as maimed and dead?

Drones devastating the innocent as much as the guilty?

The west really has no 'interest' in the Syrian civil war, which its interventions have done nothing but prolong.

The world has a universal humanitarian obligation to help the victims of war.

There are already about 3 million casualties of the Syrian war.

Relieving, not prolonging, their suffering should be the priority.

Dropping ever more bombs on Syria does nothing for them.



Is there really any point for anyone to provide you with news sources?

I am not arguing that Syria is in a horrible brutal war. I am cautious about where to put blame for materials. And the spin that could be created.

And my respect for that speech already wore off. He had me for 15 minutes.

I was pointing out to you that a famous quote in bold, doesn't make a non-negotiatiable point.

 

[Ritafee]

Didn't Obama barter a deal with Russia to negotiate with Assad to get all the chemical weapons out of Syria?

Why don't you enlighten us on that ...

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Why don't you enlighten us on that ...

Not right now I have a pain in my neck to tend to. (I actually do...but it does make a snippy remark in response to another snippy remark)

 

[Ritafee]

I am not arguing that Syria is in a horrible brutal war. I am cautious about where to put blame for materials. And the spin that could be created.

And my respect for that speech already wore off. He had me for 15 minutes.

I was pointing out to you that a famous quote in bold, doesn't make a non-negotiatiable point.

Is there anyone of us here that is part and parcel to the negotiable points. What does it matter where the blame is placed. One way or another innocent lives are being destroyed to feed the military industrial complex. I would think that our 'onlooker' position should be to continue to call out for restorative justice and stop making excuses for any sort of destructive measures. But that is just IMO.

 

[Waterfall]

Didn't Obama barter a deal with Russia to negotiate with Assad to get all the chemical weapons out of Syria?

Syria's chemical weapons were supposed to have been gone as of 2014 as the result of a deal brokered by the US and Russia through the UN. Obviously Assad didn't declare all of them.

 

[Kimmio Laughterlove]

Is there anyone of us here that is part and parcel to the negotiable points. What does it matter where the blame is placed. One way or another innocent lives are being destroyed to feed the military industrial complex. I would think that our 'onlooker' position should be to continue to call out for restorative justice and stop making excuses for any sort of destructive measures. But that is just IMO.

How do you start restorative justice in an active war zone? It has to stop first. I don't know how that can be done.

 

[Waterfall]

The cost of 59 Tomahawk missiles would feed a lot of "babies" in Somalia right now.
Starvation is just as nasty a death as chemical weapons.....just different.

 

[Jaebius]

Not right now I have a pain in my neck to tend to.

Is it me?

 

[Graeme Decarie]

nonsense. Trump has made things much, much worse, and quite possibly has set up World war 3. It's extremely reckless. We're really depending no on the skill of Putin to avoid this.
And Trump was all upset that children got killed? Is this the Trump who is deliberately starving millions of Yemeni, including children? Has the U.S. shown it gives a damn for the murder of children for last seventy years and more?
Are you aware that despite the excitement in the news media, we don't know there was a gas attack. It was announced by the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights which is a rebel propaganda front run by a haberdasher in England. The medical workers in the photos are also propaganda fronts for the rebels. They're the White Helmets.
In fact, the American supported rebels are known to have and to use poison gas.

For all the hysteria, we don't know what the gas is, if any. We don't know which side had it. (It could have been a container on the ground hit by a bomb). Our press is reporting this as though we have all the information. We don't.

The U.S. has been funding, training and supplying the 'rebels' (most of whom are not Syrian) from the start. And why has the US been doing that? Gee! Could it have anything to do with getting control of Syrian oil?

What rock and what hard place are you talking about?

And what do you think the Trump attack will accomplish? Will the Russians scamper away back to Russia? I sure hope they do. But they and chine may well decide this is the step too far.

Frankly, this is a stupid move. And I can't see what it will accomplish.

By the way - poison gas - gee - sounds like a weapon of mass destruction. Remember the use of the term weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

We are being whipped into hysteria. The last we fell for this, we killed over 20 million Iraqis, including cute little children.

 

[Jaebius]

Here's one thing about President Donald J. Trump - he has his own airplane! How many of us can say that.

 

[Luce NDs]

Is it me?

No ... you're a pain in the Golden Hind ... a bote to be Shanghaied ...

 

[Waterfall]

Graeme, who is the US fighting IYO? Assad or Isis (rebels)? In other words, who are the bad guys?