Shekhinah Glory

[revjohn]

You're honest.

Which means, of course, that everyone who has experienced these things is a liar or deluded in some way.

Because that is the way a black and white universe operates.

 

[Waterfall]

This thread is making me sad. Why don't, I experience these things?

Hi CH....I am not sure why...will we see this physical presence when we die? When Christ returns? Will it come as a sign? Or is it now dwelling in our hearts? Is it inside of us or something that occurs outside of us? Paul saw it, Moses saw it, The Israelites saw it and supposedly heard it speak to them all at once in the desert, it was present during the transfiguration of Jesus and some say that the star of Bethlehem wasn't a star at all but the Shekhinah guiding the wise men.

I'm not sure....maybe one of the Revs can answer?

 

[Hermann]

This thread is making me sad. Why don't, I experience these things?

Hi seeler:

I think everyone experiences these things.

The reason that some of us experience reality as mundane, and others as divine, is, I think, largely a matter of conceptualization or interpretation. You or chansen arguably live in the same universe as Inna or I, but you don't experience it as divine because you don't think of it as divine.

This morning it was a 2 degrees here in Coldstream, and the cold easterly airflow, from which our municipality got its name, could be felt. But the sun rose brilliantly over the distant Monashees and bathed everything in a golden glow, and I felt blessed. For most people, though, it was just an unpleasantly chilly morning.

Being in love with the world means that the world loves you back.

 

[blackbelt1961]

Hi CH....I am not sure why...will we see this physical presence when we die? When Christ returns? Will it come as a sign? Or is it now dwelling in our hearts? Is it inside of us or something that occurs outside of us? Paul saw it, Moses saw it, The Israelites saw it and supposedly heard it speak to them all at once in the desert, it was present during the transfiguration of Jesus and some say that the star of Bethlehem wasn't a star at all but the Shekhinah guiding the wise men.

I'm not sure....maybe one of the Revs can answer?

from what i have heard , today the Glory Cloud shows up sometimes during a powerful worship service where people are singing crying, pouring out there hearts , and God shows up

 

[Waterfall]

The way I understand the Shekhinah is that whenever the "glory of the lord" is spoken of, they are speaking of the Shekhinah glory. When Christ returns He will be seen by everyone in the same way that thousands of Israelites wiitnessed this firsthand along with Moses in the desert.

Judaism is the one religion among many that did not have its beginnings from one mans experience or revelation. Rather it came about from the witness of millions as God spoke to an entire nation at once. Out of those many this experience could very easily have been discredited by any that were there within the first, second or third generations. Instead this experience was passed on to every generation since as a reality that did happen. How many false religions do we know of today that were started only through the experience of one man with no witnesses? Judaism is unique this way and they claim this "witnessing" by many protects us from followong false prophets. This is the Shekhinah I beleive or the glory of God revealed.

 

[Waterfall]

The way I understand the Shekhinah is that whenever the "glory of the lord" is spoken of, they are speaking of the Shekhinah glory. When Christ returns He will be seen by everyone in the same way that thousands of Israelites wiitnessed this firsthand along with Moses in the desert.

Judaism is the one religion among many that did not have its beginnings from one mans experience or revelation. Rather it came about from the witness of millions as God spoke to an entire nation at once. Out of those many this experience could very easily have been discredited by any that were there within the first, second or third generations. Instead this experience was passed on to every generation since as a reality that did happen. How many false religions do we know of today that were started only through the experience of one man with no witnesses? Judaism is unique this way and they claim this "witnessing" by many protects us from followong false prophets. This is the Shekhinah I beleive or the glory of God revealed.

I've also read that it will depart. eg the temple

 

[Waterfall]

Deuteronomy 4:9-13

Deut.. 4:32-26

Deut. 5:1-4

 

[Ritafee]

This thread is making me sad. Why don't, I experience these things?

Whatever a worshipper interprets it as, it does happen with the involvement of the worshipper

 

[Delightful Life]

Which means, of course, that everyone who has experienced these things is a liar or deluded in some way.

Because that is the way a black and white universe operates.

(says the man with a fox sock-puppet on his paw)

or, they could be like muddy Teresa who allegedly said that she never experienced g_d

or crazyheart could be saying that nothing in this thread is isomorphic with her own experiences

or...

 

[revjohn]

(says the man with a fox sock-puppet on his paw)

Pretty cool eh? I can type and nobody sees buddy's little arms flailing about.

or...

Well sure those options might exist. The comment I responded to doesn't appear to admit such a possibility. Honest or dishonest. Those appear to be the choices in play.

 

[Hermann]

The way I understand the Shekhinah is that whenever the "glory of the lord" is spoken of, they are speaking of the Shekhinah glory. When Christ returns He will be seen by everyone in the same way that thousands of Israelites wiitnessed this firsthand along with Moses in the desert.

Judaism is the one religion among many that did not have its beginnings from one mans experience or revelation. Rather it came about from the witness of millions as God spoke to an entire nation at once. Out of those many this experience could very easily have been discredited by any that were there within the first, second or third generations. Instead this experience was passed on to every generation since as a reality that did happen. How many false religions do we know of today that were started only through the experience of one man with no witnesses? Judaism is unique this way and they claim this "witnessing" by many protects us from following false prophets. This is the Shekhinah, I believe, or the glory of God revealed.

I think the glory of God is revealed in God's creation.


It's all around us, if we could but perceive

-The Moody Blues

 

[Seeler]

Hi seeler:

I think everyone experiences these things.

The reason that some of us experience reality as mundane, and others as divine, is, I think, largely a matter of conceptualization or interpretation. You or chansen arguably live in the same universe as Inna or I, but you don't experience it as divine because you don't think of it as divine.

This morning it was a 2 degrees here in Coldstream, and the cold easterly airflow, from which our municipality got its name, could be felt. But the sun rose brilliantly over the distant Monashees and bathed everything in a golden glow, and I felt blessed. For most people, though, it was just an unpleasantly chilly morning.

Being in love with the world means that the world loves you back.

Hi Hermann: You got the wrong person. While Crazyheart is a good friend and we often agree on many things, we are different people living in different parts of Canada, with different experiences, facing different challenges.
Here in the East we are experiencing beautiful fall weather - clear blue ski, gentle breezes, green leaves. God is good. (And many people are complaining about the cold.)
I don't seem to have the intense experiences of God bursting through and singling me out like St. Paul is described as having, and as some people describe today. I think that is because I feel God is around me and within me in my daily life - whether I am consciously aware of the Holy or not.
Years ago a friend and I attended the type of festival where people were invited to get up and give their testimony. We heard story after story of people suddenly seeing the light, hearing God's voice, being overcome by the presence. As we drove home, my friend turned to me and said, "It must be nice to have one of those experiences." and I told her, "Diane, you have known God for you entire life. From the time I met you I have seen it in you. You and I apparently don't need these conversion experiences. And I have a feeling that if we did it would be very private and personal."
I think that may be the way it is with Crazyheart as well.

 

[Waterfall]

Seeler you and CH and others raise an interesting question. What and how does the Shekhinah glory look like today? Would it be the same as recorded in history or would it be different? Do we now see it by knowing Christ or is it something that appears for a unique purpose?

 

[Ryan Hauck]

To carry over a question that Chansen asked on another thread...How do we know it is God speaking to us and not our own thoughts.....Does the appearance of the Shekhina offer us assurance?

To take from Conversations With God, What would be the difference? Could not God communicate to us and through us via our Thoughts and Imagination.

We are brought to the simple inquiry of "If God is boundless and infinite, where is God Not?"

AUM

 

[Ryan Hauck]

"God speaking to us" could be a metaphor for the pure, undifferentiated experience of reality, where we may experience God in its divine splendour, in its purity, unadulterated by our thoughts. After the experience we think about the experience, but these are our thoughts about the experience, not the experience itself. The experience itself is just the pure, unconceptualized experience.

In Zen Buddhism, they try to act spontaneously and dynamically, directly from the depth of the pure experience, without intrusion by the thinking mind. If the pure experience of reality is an experience of God, then this would be "obeying God's word."

I too find it helpful in interpreting many of the Bible's as being occurrences in consciousness.

 

[Ryan Hauck]

Christians are called to test the spirits that we feel speaking to us. Sometimes the testing is fairly easy and other times it might be more difficult.
Which is one of the benefits to belonging to faith community, you have someone else who can help with the discernment.

We have some interesting ideas about what God chooses to speak about and how often God decides to directly intervene in our lives.

While I believe in God's constant presence and God's constant care I don't extend that belief to constant communication. The notion that God is always yacking on about what I should have for breakfast or what flight I should take to Vancouver (or not take) or who I should marry and what clothes I should wear to the gym is a vain one. I don't believe God micro-manages the people of God.

That said, sometimes I hear/feel God urging me to take some course of action. I have felt, very strongly, on occasion an impulse to turn left rather than right or even to pull over and wait. For what? I don't always know. Sometimes it puts me in the right spot and the right place and something happens that appears random. Sometimes it puts me in some spot and some place and nothing appears to happen out of the ordinary.

While I have, on one occasion heard a voice that I identify as God's it has only happened once and regrettably I was alone which makes it difficult to confirm that I actually heard what I thought I heard. I believed I was hearing God speak. I listened. The conversation though brief changed my direction in life. Not that I was radically different than who I am now.

Most often I feel impressions and when I am paying attention I let those impressions guide me in what I say and what I do. Sometimes, because I am not paying particularly close attention I ignore them and keep going. I do not appear to be chastized greatly because of that as if I am being penalized for not listening.

My experience with God speaking in my life thus far indicates that God thinks somewhat differently than I do about what I would like and enjoy doing. Might that be some hidden part of my brain exercising its franchise in the decision making process? That is where the testing comes in. And for the testing I always involve others though I may not disclose how they are being used.


Yes and no.

The Shekhina always affirms that God is present and any voice we hear out of the Shekhina can be trusted to be the voice of God.

God doesn't always invite us to walk pleasant garden paths or even to go where we would most like to go.

Which is probably why the fledgling nation of Israel always got supremely uncomfortable when the cloud descended upon the tabernacle or showed on the mountain as a sign of indicating Moses was to go up and talk with God. Many were not happy with the new conditions that came about as a result of such events.

IMHO, The Absoluteness of God confirms constant, consistent communication. However, what God is communicating is never relative or personal, but Transcendent and Universal. I think for the moments of clarity we ask for in our day to day lives, the Holy Spirit is there to interpret our thoughts and the Thought of God.

In so far as what God is saying.. "I AM" seems to fit.

AUM

 

[Ryan Hauck]

Revjohn Ive noticed many times that when the biblical narratives describe the appearance of the Shekhinah it is frightening and uncomfortable. So why is it that we seek God for our peace and comfort of mind? Is Gods glory supposed to frighten us?

And Herman, Ive always wondered how practicing Buddhism makes us more aware by emptying ourselves of all thoughts do you think this has any parrallels with what Christ taught?

I believe these narratives have been misunderstood. We should not be afraid of God's Glory when we are READY to choose God's Love over all else. When we are not ready to choose this, then the idea of giving up the world and its illusions does become a terrifying concept. Dissolution of the little "me" or self seems like a oblivion to the mind which does not comprehend the Glory of Unification with Source.

AUM

 

[Ryan Hauck]

Seeler you and CH and others raise an interesting question. What and how does the Shekhinah glory look like today? Would it be the same as recorded in history or would it be different? Do we now see it by knowing Christ or is it something that appears for a unique purpose?

I feel that the experience would be different for people today. Consciousness has ascended a great deal around the world, as well as the landscape has changed.

 

[Neo]

I think the glory of God is revealed in God's creation.

It's all around us, if we could but perceive

-The Moody Blues

It all comes down to our awareness of the divine. The awareness of this divine presence, Shekhinah, can only be accomplished when one opens their heart and their mind.

 

[Hermann]

Hi Hermann: You got the wrong person. While Crazyheart is a good friend and we often agree on many things, we are different people living in different parts of Canada, with different experiences, facing different challenges.
Here in the East we are experiencing beautiful fall weather - clear blue ski, gentle breezes, green leaves. God is good. (And many people are complaining about the cold.)
I don't seem to have the intense experiences of God bursting through and singling me out like St. Paul is described as having, and as some people describe today. I think that is because I feel God is around me and within me in my daily life - whether I am consciously aware of the Holy or not.
Years ago a friend and I attended the type of festival where people were invited to get up and give their testimony. We heard story after story of people suddenly seeing the light, hearing God's voice, being overcome by the presence. As we drove home, my friend turned to me and said, "It must be nice to have one of those experiences." and I told her, "Diane, you have known God for you entire life. From the time I met you I have seen it in you. You and I apparently don't need these conversion experiences. And I have a feeling that if we did it would be very private and personal."
I think that may be the way it is with Crazyheart as well.

Sorry, Seeler. I did, of course, mean to reply to crazyheart.

These intense conversion experiences often are breakthrough or awakening experiences, when we suddenly break through to the awareness that God is in us and all around us. It is like having lived in monochrome world all of one's life, and suddenly breaking through to seeing the world in colour. From then on, one is aware of colour, and that's why these highly charged breakthrough experiences usually occur only once in a lifetime.

Some people, of course, have had this awareness all along, and therefore don't have or don't need a conversion experience. And of those who had such an experience, some shout it out loud, others keep quiet, and yet others express it in the art of their choice. And those who have felt the presence of God all along do likewise.